Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT + S197 Development Thread

[GaryK]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Terry, thanks a bunch. These 2010+ Mustangs are tough to get a good looking wheel/tire setup on, at least in my opinion. Tires shorter than 27" just look tiny to me on these things, especially in the rear. I actually think the 285/40-18 looks decent.

On my car, I installed some Steeda sport springs and different shocks/struts, now I'm already wishing I had AST's! I got that stuff cheap just as a temporary measure, so depending on what happens I might end up getting some AST's for this car at some point.

As for wheels, I was gonna go really cheap but I'm leaning towards picking up the D-force set from you guys now. My car is black...wish you had the D-force in gunmetal color! Might just go with flat black for now and see how it looks.

[Fair!]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

On my car, I installed some Steeda sport springs and different shocks/struts, now I'm already wishing I had AST's! I got that stuff cheap just as a temporary measure, so depending on what happens I might end up getting some AST's for this car at some point.

Yea, you are int he same position a lot of folks find themselves... they install lowering springs with stock length struts and shocks, and the ride suffers greatly. This isn't because the springs are too stiff (they aren't), or the shocks aren't damping (they might be), its because you've lowered the car but have the tall stock length struts and shocks - and they are simply running out of "bump travel".



I've been there and done that.

This is partly why the ASTs ride so much better than most set-ups like yours at these lower ride heights - AST shocks are shortened appropriately and thus have the proper amount of bump travel at a lower ride height. Then there's the fact that they are adjustable monotube struts with killer pistons and customized valving... so even with more spring rate and a lower ride height they usually ride as good as or better than stock.

As for wheels, I was gonna go really cheap but I'm leaning towards picking up the D-force set from you guys now. My car is black...wish you had the D-force in gunmetal color! Might just go with flat black for now and see how it looks.

Yea, the temptation to use some of the cheap replica wheels avilable for this car is huge... just know that they are horrendously heavy - which impacts ride, handling, braking and acceleration - and many are made for the SN95 chassis, and just simply don't fit these cars. If you need something quick just find some OEM take-off GT500 wheels (18x9.5" or 19x9.5"), but if you can hold out another month or two our 18x10s should be here and they are light, they fit right, and are a full 10" wide.

[Fair!]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Project Update for Feb 17, 2012: We've been buried in work in the shop, but we took a couple of days off from customer work to attack the Mustang (while doing an M52 longblock swap on an STX prepped E36 328is, shown below). We are cutting it a little close (I leave for the track event down in San Marcos in about 4 hours) but the last few bits are going in the car now (seats and new 6-point harness mounts) and it should all be wrapped up by AJ and Ryan in time to load at 1 pm...



Rear Suspension Updates

We've installed the Spohn upper control arm and Panhard bar, both of which are equipped with their Del-Sphere joints (Delrin encased spherical). And yes, this is all legal in SCCA Street Touring - thanks to copious allowances for solid axle RWD cars - since none of these have proven remotely competitive in any ST class. Basically STX and STU have the same torque arm/upper control arm allowances as ESP.



So all of this has been installed, and yes, the non-adjustable OEM upper control arm made for a wacky 0° pinion angle at the lowered ride height. Basically FUBAR for a solid axle car. You want pinion to be at 0° under acceleration loads, so you try to shoot for -2 to -3° at the pinion at rest and at ride height (according to Spohn and many others). At the lowered ride height the fixed length OEM panhard bar resulted in axle offset, which we also corrected with the adjustable Spohn piece.



Can't say enough nice words about the Spohn UCA and Panhard hardware - its top notch. These Del-Sphere joints are super slick - they rotate and pivot with almost no resistance - so no binding - but are still wrapped in Delrin for less crashing than an all-metal spherical. Plus they have grease zerks and are fully rebuildable. I'll see how it rides with these in the UCA and Panhard shortly.






Weight differences between the OEM UCA and Panhard vs the Spohn hardware looks like a wash. We also used a new bolt-in UPR Products upper chassis mount - made of plate steel vs the stamped steel of the OEM bits. Yes, its STX legal - we can go hog wild on the upper control arms. I am now more worried about the factory lower control arms - they are far from parallel at ride height, and this plays hell with the Instant Center. We're going to measure that and come up with a solution to test soon (likely offset bushings).

Safety Gear Upgrade

I have been skimping a bit on safety for the various track events we've attended. For autocrosses in 2011 we have been using the fixed back race seats with 3" harness lap belts only - not a big deal when driving around a parking lot. We did most of the 2011 track stuff with OEM seats and seat belts (which is safe), but I admit to doing one track day in December with the race seats and lap belts. I did double-up with the OEM 3-point seat belt, but that's still pretty hinky. So for this weekend's track event I wanted something a little better...



That is a Corbeau harness bar I picked up from Stuart at AST/Moton. Nicely built piece, pretty hefty tubing used, and better than mounting harnesses on the lower rear seat belt locations. No, I'm still not running a 4-point roll bar, and likely won't ever do that to this car... don't want to mess-up the rear seats to make that fit. I'm sure some of you will reply with the "you are going to spontaneously combust!" safety concerns, and yes... I hear ya.

Again, this is not the perfect safety solution... so "don't try this at home". But this is NOT a race car, its a daily driven street car that I don't want to cut up for a roll cage. If the only other alternative is OEM seats and belts, then I'm going to stick with my FIA approed seats and 6-point SFI approved harnesses hung from this 1.5" dia piece of DOM, and mounted to the floor with proper G-Force clip-in floor anchors.

Hey, if business keeps exploding like it has been since our move to the new location I'll push forward with my S197 chassis race car plans later this year. Keep buying shocks and camber plates from Vorshlag, folks, so I can go American Iron racing in a proper race car!



Left: Here are the seats, about to go in. Right: All of the various pads we've got to test

I put a picture up above showing the various brake pads we've got for the Mustang. Going away from the Hawk options (HP+ for autox and DTC-60 for track) and moving to Porterfield (R4 for track and R4S for autocross). The R4s are on the car now for the first time so I will report back with my impressions from Harris Hill Road's tricky little road course.

We also bought a bunch of 3" high temp brake duct hose, and made some quickie brake ducting for the car that ties into the CS Lower Fascia, but its not complete so I'm not going to show all of the work this time around. Making brake ducting that is SCCA ST legal is damned near impossible - they have reworded the rules in such a way as to make it incredibly complicated to stay legal. Might just order a 2nd set of fender liners that we can modify for proper ducting installation and just swap this on/off for autocross events. Thanks SCCA!


click for video of 0-60 testing

I did a "before" acceleration test this week. I made three 0-60 sprints on concrete with the 275mm Bridgestones and the OEM UCA and Panhard, + the AST 4150 shocks. Best of 4.41 seconds, with a 4.45 sec and a 5.0 sec first blast (wheelspin). Once the weather clears I'll do an "after" test on the same tires but with the new Spohn gear and proper pinion angle setting. I'll post that and the video from this weekend's Pro-Touring track event / Time Trial. I've got to run on these 275/35/18 Dunlops, which have seen better days. These tested great in April of last year, so hopefully they won't suck on Saturday. And hopefully it doesn't rain - I'm bringing the Bridgestones just in case.

Oh! We are having an Open House here at Vorshlag on March 10th, all day. Tour the facilities, see our new capabilities, and check out some cool race cars. The Texas Region SCCA is having their annual Solo Inspection here that day as well. Check our Vorshlag Facebook page for more details about the open house. First autocross is the next day, March 11th.

More soon,

[John in Houston]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Questions:
1. How was the fit of the sparco harness bar? Approximate installation / removal time?
2. Need impressions on the spohn bar as I'm starting to collect parts for lowering
3. Did ya'll use the lower control arm relocation brackets... or is the adjustable upper control arm enough to get you where you need to be?

[Fair!]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Questions:
1. How was the fit of the sparco harness bar? Approximate installation / removal time?

The thing fit GREAT. Once you have the hang of it our guys said it takes 15 minutes to remove.

2. Need impressions on the spohn bar as I'm starting to collect parts for lowering

Panhard fit great. Good product.

3. Did ya'll use the lower control arm relocation brackets... or is the adjustable upper control arm enough to get you where you need to be?

LCA relocation brackets are not allowed in STX. Those would help correct for the change in IC that lowering this car futzes with. Still not sure if we have the right upper control arm solution. See my update, below....

[John in Houston]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Still not sure if we have the right upper control arm solution. See my update, below....

... well, since part of it is UPR...

[Fair!]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Project Update for Feb 24, 2012: It took me a week after the "track event" last weekend to write this update - needed time to get that disaster weekend behind me, I guess. This event was the first of 2012 for me, called the "Run To The Alamo", held by the ASCS / Pro-Touring folks, with the track portion of the event to be held at Harris Hill Road. The event was also a "qualifier" for the Optima Challenge, held each year in Vegas after SEMA. This RTTA event was supposed to be a 3 day competition event with a timed autocross, "speed stop event", and track day as well, but the autocross and speed stop portions were cancelled at the last minute (they didn't secure an autocross venue). They did have a car show, cruise-in and dinner Friday that I missed ("darn"). The somewhat lack of organization, problems with timing equipment, WEATHER, and a sick wife that tagged along combined to make for a full on "Charlie Foxtrot" event for me (clusterf*ck).

PICTURES: http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Racing-E...TA-HHR-021812/
"RESULTS": http://americanstreetcarseries.com/?page_id=751

So in my last update I covered the thrash by Vorshlag technicians AJ and Ryan. They wrenched on the Mustang for 2 days to get all of the new suspension bits installed and adjusted, brake pads/rotors on, harness bar and harnesses in, seats swapped, brake ducting built, car washed, oil changed and everything double-checked. We have been getting buried in customer fab/service work and we could only squeeze the Mustang in at the end of the week. This was the first competition event in the car since mid December, so everything need to be looked over.

The crap started with loading the trailer. I sold my 38' enclosed trailer in January (and just bought another one late today) so I borrowed a buddy's open trailer for the weekend. I was trying to leave Dallas by 1 or 2 pm, in a failed attempt to avoid Friday's "leaving town" traffic. I was also worried about the splitter making it harder to load, but with my nearly 12 feet worth of ramps (Race Ramps + the trailer ramps), it just cleared. Right as we started loading the car the weather went from sunny/nice to raining...



And the rain didn't let up for almost 48 hours. My wife, who normally co-drives our race cars and always goes to races with me, was going to come along as track side support and to help with driving to and from the event. Since we were only taking one car, and since I'm done trying to "double up" on track events in one car, she was just along to help. Too much abuse, and too hectic, to run 2 people in one car. Friday morning she was starting to get sick, and I knew from experience it wasn't going to get better anytime soon. I called McCall, he dropped everything and agreed to run down to San Marcos with me for the next 2 days to help. When I told my wife she was off the hook, she insisted she was going to go along to help, even when I begged her to stay, so we left about 3:30 pm and McCall was off the hook instead (this proved to be a huge mistake). She had set-up a blanket and pillow in the back seat of the MegaCab and proceeded to make a cocoon and slept back there the entire way. 6 hours of driving through crap traffic and steady rain the entire way... with her coughing and hacking from the back seat (later we found out she had full blown bronchitis). Oh joy.

So the drive down from Dallas to Austin/San Marcos was a nightmare, from weather and health reasons, but the truck and trailer worked fine (other than two hub caps coming off of the trailer along the way, which is $90 I need to replace now). The hotel she had reserved was very nice, full of high school cheerleaders (no joke), and we got there early enough to go out and get a real meal, but with a sick wife I stayed in and ordered room service food. She was up all night, throwing up and coughing. I almost convinced her to blow off the event and head home, since she was a mess, but she convinced me to stay. It rained HARD all night - rain pounded on the hotel window and kept waking me up, too. This all night downpour was not a good sign...


American Street Car Series "Run To The Alamo", aka Pain in the Rain

The ASCS guys said the track portion was to start at 7:30 am sharp, so "be there with cars ready for tech on time". We got up early and drove to the track by 7:40, just a tick late thanks to terrible directions by my sick navigator (heh!) and a "deep water crossing" we had go across at a bridge near the track (bad sign #2). We got to HHR and it was utter mayhem there, trucks and cars parked willy nilly, trying to unload cars in their postage stamp-sized upper parking lot. We finally figured out where to park (lower lot) and unload the car. It was raining pretty hard and it never much let up all day. Unloading a car from an open trailer in the rain SUCKS.

The main guy running the event showed up around 8:45 (oiy!), registration finally got started about 9:30, then we sat around watching the Daytona GRAND AM race in the clubhouse and kept seeing the rain come pouring down. Track owner said it had rained for going on 3 days in a row, and even though they were "in a drought" the area around the track was super saturated and "it will be draining across the track all day, even if it stops raining" (he was right). All the surrounding land drained into and across the property that the HHR track is placed on, and it was soaked.



Around 10 am they finally started had a driver's meeting ... that became a sponsor thank-fest that lasted a good 1/2 hour. By 10:45 am we had our RFID transponders installed (more on that) and a few of us finally lined up to get out on track. They wanted to do "some lead follow" laps to "sort out the drivers into groups" (never happened), and these laps lasted for almost 45 minutes, 2 laps at a time. Two drivers spin off track and proceeded to get good and stuck in the mud, during lead-follow laps. So yea, it was one of those kind of track days. I think by day's end we had 7 or 8 cars go off into the mud, needing a tow.



Watch this "highlight video" and you can see how much the weather and track conditions sucked...


in-car video showing "the opposite of track enjoyment"

There was a serious water crossing on the track, where you had to slow WAY down, and it made for 20' rooster tails whenever you crossed it. There were another 7-8 "rivers" crossing the track all day. This track has MAJOR drainage issues - not the fault of ASCS but it sucked all the same.



continued below

[Fair!]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

continued from above

The ASCS group did have some timer teething issues (with their brand new RFID track timer system they were breaking in), but Brian Finch of DSI was super helpful and worked with me several times to get my transponder to read. It took 2 transponders, moving them 3 times, re-adjusting the track side receiver, and me losing about half my laps to get it to finally work on my car. Any of you looking at RFID track timing systems, beware: they might be cheap, but they are far from idiot proof. Range is very limited and the angle of the transponder to receiver is critical, too. Maybe this Hardcard Systems unit was being messed with from the rain, I don't know - it just needed a lot of tweaking to work. By about 1:30 pm I got to where I was almost running over the receiver to make sure it read. Receiver blew over into the track surface and into the driving line once, too. Once we mounted it on the side window, aimed parallel to the receiver, it worked "pretty well". You can see the little little stick-on/disposable transponder on my right side window, below (this is the same stuff used to track groceries and other consumer goods).



On a positive note, I did finally get to see better in-car video from my 1080P vidcam, mounted properly on the harness bar, and not stuck right to the windshield with the old suction cup mount. Bad news is the rear view mirror and my ugly mug are now shown. I need to play with placement and maybe tweak the rear view mirror location, but it works better than before. I also managed to finally get my G-Tech Pro RR Fanatic data logger + lap timer to work properly in Road Race mode.

I fought with this damn G-Tech thing for a couple of events last year but never got it out of the "SS" (drag race) mode. This time, after but sitting in the pits in the rain waiting to get out on track, I messed with it long enough to figure out that the "scroll wheel" is also a push button for "select", and that did it. I also figured out how to make it work for continuous lap timing, predictive lap timing, how to add segments, and even how to make a separate start and finish (for hill climb and autocross). So now this $299 data logger display finally paid off - because now it works as advertised! I need to make a "how to video" for this thing because the instructions it comes and that they have online with are terrible. It has software I can download to data mine the laps and maybe... maybe place these onto the video??? We'll see.

What else... oh yea, I guess I tested the new Porterfield R4 brake pads, which worked fine on track but it was raining all day. They are still on the car now, and after a week of street driving there's very little brake dust, they don't make too much noise, and they work fine cold, so it might work for autocrossing, too (I bought R4S pads for that, though). With the DTC-60 Hawks, the wheels would be BLACK after a DAY of street driving, they sucked cold, and after a week the noise would make you want to drive the car into a tree. I couldn't tell jack squat about any "new rear grip", other than I had none. The new 6 point harnesses worked out nicely, and the harness bar was rock solid. Nobody wanted to ride in the Mustang - guess it wasn't cool enough? There was some pretty crazy hardware there, the weather sucked, and a lot of cars went off into the mud - not too shocking.

This event is supposed to be run on 200 treadwear tires, which I never mounted. You see I had borrowed a set of well worn 275/35/18 Dunlop Star Specs mounted on 18x9.5" wheels, but with less than 3/32" of tread on these things I wasn't going to risk those on a wet track until it dried off a bit - which it never did. So I ran the "cheater" full tread 180 treadwear Bridgestone RE-11 tires all day, but they saw that at tech noted this on my times for the competition event portion (before they revised the results). Again, the plan was to switch to the Dunlops once it dried off, then tell them to wipe out the old times, and start my timed runs over... but with 2-3" of water running across the track in 7 or 8 spots, it just wasn't safe to run on nearly bald tires. Even with nearly full tread RE-11s it was a frakking handful. I couldn't accelerate in any gear past about 3000 rpm or it would result in instant wheel spin. Even the "straights" were a handful, as most of them were curved or off-camber, so I was short shifting and using mostly 4th and 5th, and it was miserable.



Most sane people would have just packed up and left, but damnit I wanted to wait it out and post some good times when it dried out. This was a qualifier for the Optima Challenge event, you know? One person from the "top 5 times" would be chosen from this event, plus "one more hard charger", at the series organizer's discretion. So I "hard charged my ass off" and put in over 80 laps in this slop, worked on my rain driving some more at HHR (it rained all day when I ran the Mustang here in Jan 2011, too!), and put in (according to my data logged times on the CW morning runs) the fastest times in the morning rain session. Burned a tank of fuel putting around, and getting sideways. Kept coming into the pits to check on my wife, who was sicker and sicker (running a 101-102°F fever all day), and finally at 3:30, when I wasn't getting any faster and the rain let up for a few minutes, I loaded the car back onto the trailer and headed north back to Dallas. It rained the entire way back, too.

So of course, about 30 minutes after I left, there was a break in the weather right around HHR, the track dried up considerably, and lap times fell by 15-20 seconds. Figures. Again, with a sick wife and the better part of 2 days already wasted, I made a judgement call, cut my losses and bailed. Maybe if I would have stayed until dark, swapped on the Dunlops, I could have hung with the top finishers? Who knows. Should/coulda/woulda. I was in the top 1-2 in times during the rain by the time I left, so I'll have to be happy with that. Which I am not.

http://americanstreetcarseries.com/?page_id=751

If you look at the results above, it shows my name but not times. Earlier this week it did show my best wet time of 1:59.2, which was still 9th quickest - not bad considering I left well before the track dried out, and these guys were driving until dark (the fastest lap of the event was the very last lap of the event, apparently). For some reason they deleted even that time, no idea why. I don't know why, for some reason them deleting all of my times now, after posting them before, is really pissing me off - especially since I made at least 2x or maybe even 3x as many laps as anyone else there. There were periods of 20-30 minutes where I was the only car out there - some guys made only a handful of laps in their high dollar Pro Touring cars. I get that, too. My time listing, before it was deleted, did have the little **not on 200 TW tires** noted, and I was ranked in order with the rest, but now my times are wiped off the results, so I guess its like I didn't even make a lap.



What a bunch of jokers. I will never go to another ASCS event after seeing all that went wrong here - not even considering the terrible weather and piss poor track drainage. They spent more time talking about what was for lunch than what was at stake from the competition. Its just... not the same as a NASA Time Trial, or something else equally as competitive. Heck, my local marquee BMW autocross club takes the competition more seriously. Even the TX2K11 event I went to last year, which was a total train wreck, dangerous, disorganized, and which I vowed to never attend again was more on the ball and had better results than this. Maybe if the track had been dry, where I would have immediately switched to the Dunlops, then they would have no basis for throwing out my times - then maybe I would have had more fun? I almost never have much fun at non-competition events, and that's what this became - plus miserably wet. But then again, I have already signed up for TX2K12... so I guess I should never say never.



Pictures I have posted from the event will show you some seriously nice muscle car hardware, and many of you will recognize a these cars from the pages of Popular Hot Rodding and the Pro-Touring scene. Neat cars, a LOT of money invested in many of the, and I was impressed with how many of the owners weren't afraid of throwing them off the track and into the mud. I can think of only one car there that wasn't driven on the wet as hell track. There was no real damage done, luckily, but it could have been ugly if a car had spun off sideways and gone shiny side down. Oh yea, the "Detroit Speed Inc" 53' 18 wheeler transporter was chock full of kickass cars, any of which I would be proud to own. They are doing something right - that transporter was nicer than some NASCAR team's units (and may have been an ex-NASCAR Cup teams' setup). The DSI owner was a super nice guy, and worked his butt off to help me get my timing issues sorted - big thanks to Brian for that. He's apparently an owner of the new ASCS series, so maybe he can help guide them into a more organized competition series.



So, overall my thoughts on the ASCS Run To The Alamo = "meh". Needs more organizational work.


Dry 0-60 Testing

Of course our Mustang was completely filthy when we got it back to Dallas, from driving through that slop for the full day + towing it home on wet roads. AJ worked his magic and got it cleaned up this week, the weather cleared up, and I took the Mustang on another set of four 0-60 test blasts on the same roads as a week ago. This was to test the dry traction with he new rear suspension parts and pinion angle setting...


Click for video of 0-60 testing in the Mustang with the new rear suspension bits

So that was pretty much "the suck". The damn thing was slower 0-60 in all 4 tests, by 2-4 tenths. I am not a complete noob when it comes to drag racing on street tires (have made on the order of "thousands of runs" at the drag strip in similar cars), so I want to think it wasn't driver error. This testing was performed on a closed course with professional drivers driving around me, of course. It only looks like residential streets - its a TV thing. After speaking with a few more solid axle savvy friends they all think we're running a bit extreme on the pinion angle we started with (-2.5°, straight from the Spohn directions), so we're going to back it down quite a bit, do iterative testing, and inch our way to the best pinion angle. Its a grind, but this needs to be done.


What's Next?

Next event for this car is March 11th, which is the first Texas Region SCCA autocross. Local concrete lot, pretty tight, so its usually my worst event site for a car like this. I'm looking in the shop at 3 of the sets of 2011 tires we ran in STX class last year and none of them are fresh enough to re-use for this event, except the 265/35/18 Toyos R1Rs, which I wasn't at all happy with (these were the worst in our April 2011 tire test). Been trying to sell these Toyos for almost a year. So I've been looking at buying fresh tires this week, and I have it narrowed down to the 265/40/18 size in the Yokohama AD08 and the Hankook RS-3. The RS-3 is new to this 40 series size, and of course they are not in stock yet (I keep calling our guy at TireRack). I think I am going to hold out and wait for this one, as it handily won the dry autocross test that GRM / TireRack did last year, but the AD08 was right on its heels and fastest in the wet.

If we can arrange it in time I am going to hold a private autocross test before this March 11th event, but things have been so damned busy that all of my plans are going sideways lately.


New Track-side Support Vehicle

The weekend wasn't a total bust. On Sunday the weather in Dallas was picture perfect... literally not a cloud in the sky, 70°F, just beautiful. Son of a B! I took this time to go pick up my new golf cart-sized "track vehicle project", which isn't a golf cart at all. Taylor Dunn, Gas powered BG-150 "utility truck". Think "Austin Powers", but not electric, and with a front cab and box on the back. The rear box is coming off for a 2nd row of seats and a flat load floor. The TD is very narrow and should fit nicely in the front section of my new enclosed trailer, next to the built in aluminum work bench and cabinets.




Vorshlag Open House March 10th

Also, Vorshlag is having an open house along with hosting the Texas Region SCCA's Annual Solo Tech event, Saturday March 10th from 9 am until 4 pm. Feel free to come by our facility that day for a tour of our shop, meet our guys, see what we can offer in terms of fabrication/service/set-up work as well as products we build, stock and carry. Free burgers, drinks, etc. Join us here!

[twistedneck]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

am now more worried about the factory lower control arms - they are far from parallel at ride height, and this plays hell with the Instant Center. We're going to measure that and come up with a solution to test soon (likely offset bushings).

Can you explain this a little more? i opted out of the relocation brackts because it reduced ground clearance and i though it was more of a drag racing item.

Thanks, Jeff Check

PS. How are the wheels coming along? Should look excellent with a nice Vorschalg center cap. That D-Force cap is kinda sparce.

[twistedneck]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Here are some pics of that hood, i saw it this weekend at the Autorama in Detroit.. also shown are typical 18" wheels on these race cars although these are 240-35-18, not the 40's that worked so well on the Vorshlag Mustang.

For those who want to dream i also attached a pic of the mustang high flow heads by Livernois.. add a nice cam, some new pistons, rods, oil pump, intake = world challenge 500HP+

http://home.comcast.net/~jcheck10/race1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jcheck10/race2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jcheck10/race3.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jcheck10/race4.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jcheck10/race5.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jcheck10/race6.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jcheck10/race7.jpg

[Fair!]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Here are some pics of that hood, i saw it this weekend at the Autorama in Detroit.. also shown are typical 18" wheels on these race cars although these are 240-35-18, not the 40's that worked so well on the Vorshlag Mustang....

http://home.comcast.net/~jcheck10/race7.jpg

Look closely... that's a 275/35/18 Hoosier on the BBS 18x10" wheel ($637 each, 20+ pounds). Commonly used wheel and tire size in GRAND AM, WC, etc. Its still pretty short...

[John in Houston]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Here are some pics of that hood, i saw it this weekend at the Autorama in Detroit

That's a Tiger Racing hood. OEM on the Boss 302S and R. If you need more photos, let me know as I have one on my Boss 302 . Cost is @$900 shipped. Fit and finish is excellent. Weight is <17lbs.

[twistedneck]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Look closely... that's a 275/35/18 Hoosier on the BBS 18x10" wheel ($637 each, 20+ pounds). Commonly used wheel and tire size in GRAND AM, WC, etc. Its still pretty short...

i typed that at work never multitask with non work!.. yes they were 275-35-18's.. i should know i just bought a set of NT05's. as you said the point was for some reason most of the world challenge and race stangs i've seen run 35 tire vs 40, but the Vorshlag stang clearly had better grip with the 40's..

anyone know what the reasoning is?

[hancheyb]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

i typed that at work never multitask with non work!.. yes they were 275-35-18's.. i should know i just bought a set of NT05's. as you said the point was for some reason most of the world challenge and race stangs i've seen run 35 tire vs 40, but the Vorshlag stang clearly had better grip with the 40's..

anyone know what the reasoning is?

Those professional series run spec tires. They have to make as few sizes as possible (economies of scale) AND try to keep things equal between cars. Most of the GS cars in Continental get that 275 tire. Where it looks funny on a Mustang it looks silly on a Camaro and Challenger where they came with 20" wheels. And the amateur series probably run a 275 because of size availability and Hoosier makes the Continental tire for Continental. Probably comes out of the same mold (different compounds of course).

I believe the World Challenge tire is a 305mm wide slick. I don't know if it has a profile number to it, just overall height usually.

[twistedneck]

Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Will 285 35 18 fit on these wheels. Not that it matters but i was a bit flow away by how poorly the boss did against the ZL1 in a recent track test.

Main complain was braking but i assume that was a simple pad change to control initial friction.

wost though was the lack of G it could pull mid corner resulting from minial tire width and reduced contact patch, different compounds. the zl1 has a 285 front.

How would that work with my new Vorshlag d-force wheels on the way? They are 10" but it seems already close to the max width for the front S197.

factory 19" brembo pkg wheel is 27" OD, 13.51 Radius, 10.03" wide. sidewall 4.01"

275-40-18 10.82" wide - radius 13.33, 26.66" dia - sidewall 4.33"

285-35-18 11.22" wide - radius 12.92, 25.85" dia (0.2" wider per side vs the 275, 0.41 shorter radius vs the 275). sidewall 3.92".

Will a 285/35-18 fit on front and rear of these d-force wheels?