WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

[Dean!]

For Historical Record:

Here's your post from SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12 to the LSCBMWCCA:

"From: "Brian Hanchey" <hancheyb@...>
Date: Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:40 pm
Subject: Big news for Vorshlag Motorsports a0516487

Regards,
Terry and Brian of Vorshlag.com

PS: We will be at the "fake hooters" gathering on Wednesday the
15th. We'd love to talk about these recent changes as well as
discuss upcoming product lines and practice events."

################

Here's my post from THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 9 to the LSCBMWCCA:
---------------------------------------------

From: "dyamada..." <dyamada...>
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2006 5:23 pm
Subject: Informal Gathering, Wed, 6:30pm at Winghouse in Addison

Subject: Informal Gathering, Wed, 6:30pm at Winghouse in Addison

Location: SE Corner of Beltline/Midway in Addison, big sign that
says "Winghouse"

Parking: Great, lots of no door ding spots

What kind of place is it: Pretty much a spittin' image of H00ters in
every way, from the menu to the bar stools to the wait staff

Why: Informal event, meet Mark Williams your autocross chair, talk
about whatever, find the scoop on the new Greyson? autocross site,
maybe hear about some of the trials and tribulations of an E36 LS1
engine swap with some of the Vorshlag guys , see my new ride for the
2006 season, excuses for 2005, bench racing for 2006, great food and
beer...

Who can make it?

################

If that's committing the "Vorshlag guys to an event they've been backed into" then there's been a gross exaggeration, you've been hanging around Terry too much

[hancheyb]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

Sorry, I read "vorshlag guys" to mean Terry and Brian. That is who the LSC guys know as the "vorshlag guys". We've been posting on their board (as you know) telling them of services and now products that we offer. This board knows the difference, but when you say that on the LSC list, they have no clue about "bhot" or "vorshlag" etc. I'm just asking that you/we all be careful because now there is a Vorshlag Motorsports, L.L.C.

Also, we wrote that letter AFTER you said "the vorshlag guys" will be there.

[Dean!]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

Also, we wrote that letter AFTER you said "the vorshlag guys" will be there.

This is silly, but you've way misTerryinterpreted this:

This is what I wrote to that public BMW list:
Why: Informal event, meet Mark Williams your autocross chair, talk
about whatever, find the scoop on the new Greyson? autocross site,
maybe hear about some of the trials and tribulations of an E36 LS1
engine swap with some of the Vorshlag guys , see my new ride for the
2006 season, excuses for 2005, bench racing for 2006, great food and
beer...

It's a public Yahoogroups list, there's no exaggeration there. It didn't "commit" you, it said, "maybe..." quite a difference.

Maybe Duck will be there...

Maybe Chris Bangle will be there...

Maybe Bryan will be there...

I don't think they've been committed to coming. My humble opinion, if yours differs, then let's just leave it at that - a difference in opinion.

[Oversteer]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

So who's up for this after work tomorrow (Wednesday 2/15) 6:30pm ?

I'm out. Going to the Mav's game with the general contractor on my current job.

[Fair!]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

First, I'm not picking on Dean here - this needed to be said and I'm gonna repost it (without the references to any person or event) on the board announcement page.

Dean did kinda post first about "the vorshlag guys" being at that LSC gathering to "talk about LS1 installations" (which I don't like to promote or emphasize, as it isn't finished and I've been "working" on it for far too long). Think about it: If I wasn't there to "talk about the LS1 project", who would, and why? I'm not bragging, hardly anything to brag about as it's more yard art than prototype, but I've spent at least 20 times as many hours working on that car as the next person.

I have always given props to all the people who've helped work on the E36 LS1, with design suggestions and hard work coming from many of your here (such as McCall, Hanchey, Paul, Dean, Cody, Bryan, and others - even Punky), and will continue to do so. There's just been too many solo nights working on it (and "solo funding") to truly consider it a real "group project", you know? I wish that wasn't the case and if I can get some additional budget allocated to it again I hope people here will help me get this thing going. There's just been too much interest in it to ignore the project or any potential kit.

Anyway, that thing is not close to being done and it depresses me to talk about it. You may have noticed I have de-emphasized the E36 LS1 greatly on the Vorshlag site for some time now (as well as cop car stuff, cars for sale, and fairdesigns website crap) and this car won't be a main attraction again for a long time. I am going to finish it, and volunteers would surely help, but it's had to go back burner to the new Vorshlag suspension business, Vorshlag set-up services, as well as prep on our two personal race cars (M3 and RX that we're racing at a lot more events this coming year.

Since we were sort of volunteered to be there (see first paragraph for why I thought this, hehe), we went ahead and confirmed to the LSC list that we would be at dinner Wednesday, and we're both now going. (I woulda gone regardless, as my schedule is fairly flexible) No big deal, but it woulda been nice for a heads up. It will be a good time to talk about the Vorshlag LLC stuff, of course.

Again, not a big deal, please don't get bent outta shape over it. On the night you sent your post, "Vorshag" was still pretty loosey goosey and mostly just a place for this oft-renamed forum and some pictures of our car projects. No one else new about the stuff going on behind the scenes with the MFE merger, the services stuff increasing in importance, etc., because it wasn't a done deal yet. Everything accelerated over the next few days into becoming a legitimate business. We kept all of the MFE stuff on the "down low" because we didn't want to over-promise on anything before we were sure of the outcome.

Under-promising. This goes for all of the future Vorshlag "business related" car projects we will be developing over the coming months. (non commercial type personal projects, reviews of other stuff, and basic tech articles will stay the same - open and out there for the world to see) In the past we stuck boatloads of pictures of work in progress all over the Vorshlag site (and the 2 associated smugmug sites) and on this forum. What did it matter? I/we wasn't selling anything; no one ever did much with Vorshlag for the first 3-4 years of it's existence other than a gaudy website and some stickers at last year's Nationals. Now, well, we won't be pre-releasing a lot of pictures or information on the public Vorshlag website because we don't want potential customers bugging us when something isn't ready to sell 5 minutes later. I can't count the number of calls I've had to my CELL phone from potential LS1 E36 swap kit customers. I don't want that to happen with every potential product line or car model we're working on long before they're ready for sale. Customer Spam X 10,000??

We will keep the private portion of the Vorshlag forums in the know, as much as possible (I still don't know some of the people that have private accounts in here), but we're gonna have to ask everyone here to not spread rumors or details about parts under development around the 'net. Some of you could be testing prtotype parts in the future that we don't want anyone to know about. This could get us in a bind, or worse - give competing companies information about what we're working on. This has already been a real problem with one suspension competitor.

The internet has made information sharing too easy and that could cost us money if the wrong thing got out too soon. Like with the early development pictures of the LS1 in an E36 - two different groups used this information to then create companies that sell LS1 swap kits. The unique power booster/master cylinder relocation mod has shown up on another E36 V8 swap of late. My looseness with pictures helped out others that are now business competitors. I can't make those mistakes anymore.

Everything changed when Vorshlag LLC came into being. I hope you guys can bare with Hanchey and me while we figure out how to adjust and learn what we're doing. Again, we don't want to alienate any of you guys, our friends and racing colleges, and hope that we can count on you for some prototype development testing ("please try out this new part"), input for new products (our heads are spinning just figuring out ordering inventory needs for the existing stuff), participation in practices, and maybe some mild promotion of our shiznat around the net and to racing friends.

We wish there was so much business and work to go around that everyone could be a "partner", but of course there isn't. Even with the added MFE business it will not be a huge mega-success overnight, and we do mention that Vorshlag is still an after-hours business several places on the site. Hanchey and I wanted to try this thing out, and we're gonna be busting our asses to make it work, and grow. It will be a significant investment in time and money but we work well together. Most importantly, Hanchey has been a great motivator for me, and he knows more about some of the business aspects than I do.

Again, please bare with us as we adjust to the new responsibilities with the Vorshlag growth. If we fail miserably you can make fun of us. If we succeed you can say you knew us when we were but struggling, hobbyist solo2 racers and fabrication hacks.

Sorry to put all this in a reply to you, Dean - but it needed to be stated somewhere.

[Dean!]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

[Maybe I should quote your entire post above right now, before you go off an edit it, so my reply doesn't sound strange... ]

Wow, someone wanted to vent. You're going to need to be careful about drawing a line from "Vorshlag the business" and "Vorshlag - the name of the group of car buddies from many years."

If I make the statement: "Maybe see Chris Bangle and hear about the trials and tribulations of his design choices." - Do you think his agent would be on the phone with me about why I scheduled him to come out to an *informal* event sitting on bar stools drinking beer and eating chicken wings ?? Did I just corner him in ?

This is classic Terry overexaggeration of one point that any person makes and blowing it out of proportions and going on your rant, then using the words "panties" and "wad" in the same sentence when they reply to anything you say. So from the "Vorshlag - the name of the group of car buddies" side, pay attention. This is an *informal event* because I owe the auto-x chairman a dinner for a favor of personally delivering some car stuff to my front door. It was mentioned that "maybe you can hear about the trial and tribulations from some of the Vorshlag guys" - which part of "maybe" do you still not comprehend ?? If you don't show up, who cares - so we don't talk about the trial and tribulations of an E36 LS1 swap oh well, this is still chicken wings and beer, remember? Also, a lot of random reasons were thrown out, like the new Greyson site, bench racing, seeing cars, smack talk - informal. You're focusing on one little statement affecting the entire reputation of "Vorshlag - the business" for the 2 guys from LSCBMWCCA that will actually show up ??

Oh my gosh, if Terry/Brian don't show up to an informal event with chicken wings and beer, then all of "Vorshlag - the business" is doomed forever.

You've already alienated yourself and "Vorshlag the business" with the LOCAL Bimmer owners with your own mouth, Terry - aren't the *officers* asking you "Why are you drinking so much hater-aid for calling the LSC BMWCCA course designs as the sucky?" I've never heard of the expression "Hater-Aid" but I find it funny. Maybe you should let Hankimchee be the spokesperson - I don't think he'll alienate one of the core demographics of the tuner parts that you sell in the SAME CITY that you operate "Vorshlag - the business" But ahh, you have no respect for them, you call them Special Olympic drivers - but guess what Terry - Vorshlag business owner, they drive BMWs and they obviously have money to spend....You have to respect your money.

I think your two or three pictures you posted on bimmerforums (a public website all bimmer fans know about) is likely NOT the reason that "two other businesses" created their companies to create a relocated master cylinder or whatever, I think it's because Herb Kelleher said, "..it is called doing things." They did it. Nash started in January? Was done by April??

Do you think any of us have ever posted external to BHOT/Vorshlag and anyone really cares about any "proprietary trade *thoughts* of Terry" and his godly e36 LS1 conversion?

Do you think anyone else but you and Brian are even reading this reply and that anyone else truly cares??

You've let this "Vorshlag - the business" get in the way of "Vorshlag - the name of a group of car buddies united under a common name" - so be careful, that's all.

Wednesday nite (topic of this thread) is about CHICKEN WINGS AND BEER and nice scenery, don't spoil your stomach over some horrendous idea that your business was cornered into some major press release media event - I bet you that only 2 "others" show up besides me, Sean, Jeremy, and maybe Paul. (oops sorry Paul I just cornered you into coming!!! sorry I have a tendency to do that) One of the "others" is Mark Williams....

Schedule a press release for "Vorshlag - the business" after you've written a formal business plan...that's what you should be focusing on....

[the german kid]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

I might come to ,depends if Jason is going (oh no i just cornerd Jason into coming)

anyways i might come but for me it really depends on Jason, my non turbo evo is at the shop.

so guys please be all friends again and focus on the major stuff

the german

[McCall]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

I'll be there....to drink beer and eat wings.

[hancheyb]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

Boy I know better than to take this bait. Dean, you're post if full of misinformation. Just a couple of snipets.

1. Terry never called their course designs bad, it was BMW designs he doesn't like and there's plenty of people that feel that way. Why is he not allowed to disagree?? Several people even after his rants have posted they hope he comes back to events because he's a good driver. Why would they say that if they hate him?

2. We have been working on a business plan since September. Sorry you weren't in the loop. And btw, the press release has helped explain our situation to several vendors already. It was a good idea. Make fun of it all you want!

3. "loose lips sink ships". And that is exactly where the LS1 project is heading since Terry posted ALL his stuff, as he stated. Not three pics. BTW, there are 30,000 people on bimmerforums and one or two projects show up around the time Terry's did. Hmmm.

4. Special Olympics comments were posted on our private forum. If any LSC person knows about it, someone here told them. Again, reference #3.

5. I'm baffled at your view of "Vorshlag". As Terry said, he initiated this 4 years ago and nothing happened. No one paid him for hosting the site correct? I don't recall it really ever being used to describe our TAMSCC-Dallas group until January when we flipped the site from Bhot. I guess I missed something when I was living in Georgia.

6. No more replies from me after this. I agree to disagree, see you guys tonight!

[Fair!]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

Dean, you baffle me... I honestly don't know what you are talking about or why you have taken all of this so personally.

"Vorshlag the group of car guys"? This Dallas group has been called many things but that's a new one on me. This site is just where the forum is located for the past couple of months. Its been called many things - TAMSCC-Dallas, BHOT, now this. Now this website name is a group name?

As far as exaggerations, you're sure catching up. Pissing off the entire BMW chat list, well I will beg to differ. There are some sore egos on that list but that has been a vocal minority of about 3-4 people (1-2 of which are crazy people, like this biergut character). That happens on all lists.

[Redwood]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

I never really thought of Vorshlag as a group of car buddies, but I guess everybody having a page on the site could give that impression. Also, that Hater-aid comment by Mark W. was totally uncalled for.

[hancheyb]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

I never really thought of Vorshlag as a group of car buddies, but I guess everybody having a page on the site could give that impression. Also, that Hater-aid comment by Mark W. was totally uncalled for.

Well, I think Mark is very sensitive to comments since he's the first one to venture out to new sites. There's a lot of risk for him. Frankly, I don't blame him. But yeah, he took a bunch of stuff out of context. All will be good when attendance goes up at the closer events!

[Dean!]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

Actually the only single item I took personally was the fact that I "cornered" and "forced" you guys to show up - both you and handkimchee keep focusing on that fact, and I've already re-pasted the original post in this same thread like four times.... You both have brought up, "Next time gives us a heads up before committing us" <-- that's my nagging point, I never committed you - do you think I'm that discourteous of a guy ?

The rest of the stuff I just don't care and neither does anyone else...

Here's reality: 3 total people from LSCBMWCCA will show up. 7 people from Vorshlag show up. We talk about 24 and Lost all night and have good food and beer. Was that worth getting bent out of shape over ?

Y'all freaked out over that singular statement thinking this is some PR release in front of 500 investors and news reporters.

I have no hard feelings, really, but if you both call me out, I'll defend my point relentlessly.

I'll move onto the Informal Event - Chicken Wings and Beer.

P.S. You are right about the BMW design - Chris Bangle vs the BMW COURSE design stuff, I read the emails out of order and took that out of context, Mark made a single post (with no original text to explain his post) denoting all of the things the Vorshlag guys have posted that they hate and used the subject Hater Aid - after reading the beginning of the thread, he meant references to Chris Bangle's design, not the courses they designed.

P.P.S. Has anyone besides Fair ever posted an E36 LS1 picture (or informational comment) external to BHOT - no, I think it's just Fair, but I presume he's learned his lesson...

[Redwood]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

P.P.S. Has anyone besides Fair ever posted an E36 LS1 picture (or informational comment) external to BHOT - no, I think it's just Fair, but I presume he's learned his lesson...

I believe the E36 LS1 forum is viewable by anybody. It is not a private forum (last I checked). It definitely wasn't in the past.

[Paul]

Re: WingHouse on Wed, 2/15/06 6:30pm - anyone?

count me out guys, not feeling to well.