EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

[instigator]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

That's what my model is actually called. for some dumb a$$ reason they call it the IX when they are all IXs. The RS has been around since the EVO I. As has the GSR as the more street oriented version. They only recently addred the MR to the lineup.

Here's a history lesson (not that anyone cares) that goes through the VII.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/fe...scc_lancerevo/

So why include parts that will be tossed later? With that philosophy in mind, RS models were sold with steel wheels, manual windows, and cheap seats. ABS was not offered on RS models, nor was a rear wiper. The GSR, intended to serve street-car duty, included power windows, air conditioning, Recaro seats, alloy wheels and carpets, helping to bring the GSR's total weight to 2,730 pounds, 155 pounds more than the RS. Keep in mind the Japanese weigh their cars with no fuel, spare, or jack, so make a mental conversion over to American-style curb weights.

Oha nd we also get a "nicer version of the RS over here. Check out the bling bling wheels and seats they put on the RS overseas.

[Fair!]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

Got some good info from this SCCA thread I started for my friend: http://sccaforums.com/forums/163519/ShowPost.aspx

Trans and final drive ratios:

2005 VIII...........2006 IX
RS/GSR.............RS/GSR...............MR
2.928...............2.785...............2.909
1.950...............1.950...............1.944
1.407...............1.444...............1.434
1.031...............1.096...............1.100
0.720...............0.761...............0.868
.............................................0.693

4.529...............4.529...............4.583

• They still call the "middle" EVO a GSR, just not officially.
  
• Coil-over options (around $2000) include: DMS, Buddy Club, Whiteline, Zeal, JIC, HKS, Cusco and several JDM brands.
  
• The curb weights of the IX:
• RS (3219), GSR (3274, 3338 SSL pkg.), MR (3285)
  
• Nobody makes an off-the-shelf hitch.
  
• Camber plates are $200-500.
  
• 280 whp is what some shoot for, but I suspect 300 is doable, legally.
  
• ECM flash tuning is limited to "Vish" and some mail order crap. Piggy Backs are limited as well. Sucks.

Nothing earth shattering here...

edit: Went and looked at the 2005 RS in Lewisville. Again. Very Spartan inside, not nearly as nice as the 2006 models, but that aluminum roof and lack of wing are nice... and they're selling it at a "CLOSE OUT!" price, according to the slathered paint on the windshield.

If it only had ABS... You know, I bet it could be added with an ABS wiring harness and actuator. Maybe some new brake lines. STU legal? Doubtful - no update/backdate. The MR is the only way to get ABS and alum roof. Silly.

[instigator]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

• Nobody makes an off-the-shelf hitch.
  
• Camber plates are $200-500.
  
• 280 whp is what some shoot for, but I suspect 300 is doable, legally.
  
• ECM flash tuning is limited to "Vish" and some mail order crap. Piggy Backs are limited as well. Sucks.

Nothing earth shattering here...

edit: Went and looked at the 2005 RS in Lewisville. Again. Very Spartan inside, not nearly as nice as the 2006 models, but that aluminum roof and lack of wing are nice... and they're selling it at a "CLOSE OUT!" price, according to the slathered paint on the windshield.

If it only had ABS... You know, I bet it could be added with an ABS wiring harness and actuator. Maybe some new brake lines. STU legal? Doubtful - no update/backdate. The MR is the only way to get ABS and alum roof. Silly.

No, but some people are making them. Mine was $100 and bolts right in.

My camber plates were like $150 shipped.

Turbotrix is the way to go with a flash. I did a mail in flash, but will be getting a dyno tune shortly. They made 300whp/300wtq on 93 octane on Mark Berry's car with STU exhaust and a fuel computer on stock boost.They've been tuning the 4G63 since the early 90s.

Any idea what "Close out" price is?

[hancheyb]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

• Nobody makes an off-the-shelf hitch.
• Camber plates are $200-500.
• 280 whp is what some shoot for, but I suspect 300 is doable, legally.
• ECM flash tuning is limited to "Vish" and some mail order crap. Piggy Backs are limited as well. Sucks.

Nothing earth shattering here...

edit: Went and looked at the 2005 RS in Lewisville. Again. Very Spartan inside, not nearly as nice as the 2006 models, but that aluminum roof and lack of wing are nice... and they're selling it at a "CLOSE OUT!" price, according to the slathered paint on the windshield.

If it only had ABS... You know, I bet it could be added with an ABS wiring harness and actuator. Maybe some new brake lines. STU legal? Doubtful - no update/backdate. The MR is the only way to get ABS and alum roof. Silly.

No, but some people are making them. Mine was $100 and bolts right in.

My camber plates were like $150 shipped.

Turbotrix is the way to go with a flash. I did a mail in flash, but will be getting a dyno tune shortly. They made 300whp/300wtq on 93 octane on Mark Berry's car with STU exhaust and a fuel computer on stock boost.They've been tuning the 4G63 since the early 90s.

Any idea what "Close out" price is?

Mitsu's story on why it didn't have ABS was that it had three LSDs and the center diff wasn't electronically controlled. Marketing speak. But then they came out with the new elec. diff last year and the other models have ABS which I guess goes along with what Jeremy said was the intent of the RS, base base BASE model.

Is losing ABS all that bad? Didn't we all drive cars without ABS 10 years ago? There are still some fast cars out there without it, original Viper I believe. I for one have gotten very lazy with braking just slamming on the pedal. It would take some getting used to and it would suck in the rain.

Jeremy your plates (or something) is very noisy.

[Paul]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

I did a few calculations regarding gearing and the MR comes out on top with the 6 speed. It is less than a 1/2mph difference in 2nd gear and a much better overdrive. I believe in the '06 model the weight difference between the 3 versions is less than the '05 models. Sure is a big jump in price just for a transmission. What else does the MR have that justifies the price jump?

MR (good):
better tranny (stronger too?)
lower CG


MR (bad):
higher cost
higher weight

[instigator]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

Jeremy your plates (or something) is very noisy.

You talkig about when you drove it? That's been fixed.

[McCall]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

Jeremy your plates (or something) is very noisy.

Does that mean you are test driving? Say it isn't so! Don't give up on the M3 yet!

[instigator]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

Jeremy your plates (or something) is very noisy.

Does that mean you are test driving? Say it isn't so! Don't give up on the M3 yet!

That was a while ago at your B-Day party.

[Fair!]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

I did a few calculations regarding gearing and the MR comes out on top with the 6 speed. It is less than a 1/2mph difference in 2nd gear and a much better overdrive.

"Much better overdrive"? It's barely different than 5th gear on the GSR. Like .693 on the MR (6th) to .712 on the GSR. That's insignificant.

I believe in the '06 model the weight difference between the 3 versions is less than the '05 models. Sure is a big jump in price just for a transmission. What else does the MR have that justifies the price jump?

Yea, the transmission is unique, and maybe some bling factor. The MR has all of the leather and HID healights that are part of a $3500 option package on the GSR (but that comes with a sunroof). The "vortex generators" (rolleyes) and wickerbill on the F40 wing, plus a factory installed 3 gauge pod (boost, oil and alt; a dealer accessory that's supposedly $150). The MR comes with the Bilsteins, which are so-so and would go bye-bye for solo2 use. Forged (and uglier) wheels that are like 1.5 pounds lighter. Aluminum roof (RS also) which is 13 pounds lighter than the steel roof on the GSR (optional sunroof is another 30 pounds on top of that).

Nothing significant other than the tranny... which isn't significantly better, gearing-wise. Not $4000 worth in extras.

MR (good):
better tranny (stronger too?)
lower CG

MR (bad):
higher cost
higher weight

I don't see the lower CG - other than the 6 speed is heavier so I guess there's "more" weight down low... but I'd take less overall weight than a "lower CG" with added mass. Still, I bet the 13 pounds off the roof would kinda offset the heavier trans. Listed weights are a wash.

[Fair!]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

Is losing ABS all that bad?

YES!

Didn't we all drive cars without ABS 10 years ago? There are still some fast cars out there without it, original Viper I believe. I for one have gotten very lazy with braking just slamming on the pedal. It would take some getting used to and it would suck in the rain.

This is one of those technologies that I wouldn't ever give up unless I got something BIG in return (like maybe choosing an older and VERY light chassis for SM, that obviously wouldn't have ABS but would have a 500+ pound weight advantage over a newer chassis).

When F1 cars have ABS the drivers downplay it's importance... but when they threaten to take it away the drivers scream bloody murder!

It's not just shorter braking distances (which are very real in solo2 and all forms of racing. Do you have 4 feet and 4 brake pedals? Can you cycle a caliper 100 times a second? NO.). It's also added CONFIDENCE. When you have ABS on your car, and you're coming into a big corner out at MW... say the surface is already coming apart, and you're driving over a patch of concrete. And over a bump in an expansion joint. And you're coming in crossed up and off-line, because the entrance to the corner is ugly. And you have to brake... HARD.

Which would you rather have: A modern 4 channel ABS system or one big pedal and fancy footwork?

I'd rather MASH THE BRAKE and let the computer sort out the balance, on the fly.

Don't confuse straight line, magazine tested 60-0mph braking with what we really do in solo2 - which is usually anything but straight line braking in ideal conditions. The old Viper did poorly in solo2, also.

[Paul]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

Just some interesting tidbits from Mark Daddio / Navid :

I run 18x10 with 22mm offset in front, and 18x9.5 with 35mm offset in rear. 285/30/18 Hoosier a3so5 tires for autocross.
-Mark Daddio

25 mm would be a better offset for the front. I also run Ohlins coilovers with 6" freeheight springs to allow it to work. It may also work with a stock setup, but I am not certain.
-Mark Daddio

I just changed my front springs from 10" to 8". Now I can fit the 285/30's without the spacers. That's the perfect size for the spring on the Ohlins. Any shorter and you won't have enough threads to raise the car enough. Any longer and you'll have fitment issues with beefy tires.
-Navid

[hancheyb]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

Jeremy,
Does anyone worry about tuning the '06 with the MIVEC stuff?

I went and looked at a VIII RS at lunch. I'd be all over that if it was a better than 50 pound weight advantage. Just doesn't seem like enough to lose ABS. If it was 100 pounds, sure. We need to take the scales over to the dealer and weigh all the VIII's and IX models.

[Fair!]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

We need to take the scales over to the dealer and weigh all the VIII's and IX models.

hahaha... that thought HAD crossed my mind...

Well, that was before "my friend's" EVO ideas were shot full of holes by my whippin of a wife.

[hancheyb]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

Well, that was before "my friend's" EVO ideas were shot full of holes by my whippin of a wife.

Wait, I keep getting confused...this all sounds familiar with my spousal unit. Altho, she said she was cool with it "if" we could afford it. Uh.....define "afford" darling.

[Redwood]

Re: EVO: IX vs MR vs RS?

Well, that was before "my friend's" EVO ideas were shot full of holes by my whippin of a wife.

Wait, I keep getting confused...this all sounds familiar with my spousal unit. Altho, she said she was cool with it "if" we could afford it. Uh.....define "afford" darling.

If you eat ramen noodles all the time, I bet you could "afford" it.