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  • McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

    Jason is very busy so I figured I'd start a build thread for his car and let him do the updates from here on out. We got a lot done on Saturday morning so the project is in full swing!


    As purchased the car had some great parts (and some messes to fix) but no motor


    This car was a former autocross/drag car with a turbo BMW 6. It was for sale with all sorts of go fast goodies but no motor, and Jason grabbed it up for a V8 swap. Giant CCW 3-piece wheels (18x10.5" front, 18x11" rear) and a lot of rear frame reinforcement for an E36 style "dual ear mount" diff, with a Rogue finned diff cover. A built diff with a Quaife LSD.

    Jason, Paul M and I went to Florida and back on a 36 hour non-stop round trip to get the car in Feb 2008. Since then the car has been essentially stripped down to the tub, being readied for the LS1 install, and now the drivetrain is going in.

    Suspension needs major help (the old shocks are all blown and/or locked up, so they need to be rebuilt and replaced with ASTs). The brakes are a mess - some Wilwood lightweight stuff, but its all jacked up with some home-brew hard lines, a line lock, and more - that all needs to go. Jason has already relocated the ABS pump (its in the way of the LS1) and moved it under the dash, like in our Alpha car, and ditched the line lock. We're going to try to get him into a full RacingBrake Big Brake Kit (we'll be selling their wares soon) and then he can re-plumb all of the brakes correctly.




    The interior has been pulled out and the sheet metal repainted. 2-tone steering wheel is FOR SALE.

    The fuel tank is full of old fuel (which is now varnish) so it needs to be cleaned out thoroughly, a higher flow fuel pump installed (WalBro 255 lph should do it) and then all new fuel lines run.


    LS1 Camaro engine going in

    Jason found a complete, running Camaro LS1/T-56 last year - which was curiously enough installed in a 1996 Mustang Cobra - and he bought it for a good price. The transmission went through a quick rebuild and then he added a LS7 clutch and lightweight aluminum flywheel. He went a little crazy and bought an electric water pump and Katech idler (the anodized blue bits on front - its looks pretty baller). A new TurnOne "race" power steering pump (like the one we're using) is going on soon, as well as a new alternator, and then its ready to crank.


    Yours truly, lining up the motor mounts

    Last weekend I went over and helped him install the drivetrain using the Vorshlag/DP motor mounts and transmission crossmember kits. These went in with little effort (we had to dimple the trans tunnel slightly in 2 small places, no biggie - these parts were made for an E36 chassis after all) and everything line up perfectly. On Sunday I brought our Alpha car's headers by for a test fit and they went in perfectly as well.


    L: VoMo/DP Trans crossmember fit great. R: So do the full length headers

    So all he needs next is a custom driveshaft (VERY short), and the normal wiring and plumbing to get the car on the road. We're going to be pushing him to finish it this summer, so he doesn't missing another season of track and autocross events. The final weight should be under 2300 pounds (yikes!) so this will be a thrill ride, even with stock (340 whp) power levels. After its had some shake down runs it will get a full cage and some other upgrades, as needed.


    Ready to be re-assembled and DRIVEN!
    Last edited by Fair!; 05-04-2009, 02:23 PM.
    Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
    2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
    EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

  • #2
    Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

    From the way it sounds this is going to be a race car. Is this correct?
    '06 Mustang GT
    VTPP!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

      Originally posted by Thinkkker View Post
      From the way it sounds this is going to be a race car. Is this correct?
      Uhh, yea. It quit being a street car before he bought it. Although, you never know with McCall. I think he's going to reinstall the dash and maybe the center console (that's all it needs to meet the "modified" class for Redline Time Attack!).

      Here's a brief summary on this car/project that McCall posted on 5/4/2009 over on Bimmerforums, after I started his project thread there:

      Originally posted by McCall
      Thanks for prodding me enough and finally starting a build thread for me Fair. I just didn't want to start a thread too early as I knew work would be limited quite a bit this last year and didn't want to have one of those project started threads that never gets finished and the poster just disappears. My job also has me traveling a bunch so there may be some time between posts. My schedule is getting a bit lighter plus parts are starting to come together so things should continue to move along in the next few months so now it makes sense to start posting up about the project.

      The car - '00 M Roadster, 24k original miles. Now before you BMW purists start, this car has lead a very rough life and was a partially disassembled rolling chassis plus cut up a bit before I got a hold of it. Basically it was no spring chicken! The car came with full complement of chassis upgrades (coil-overs, dual-tab diff mount), the afore mentioned CCWs, TC Kline carbon fiber hood, Fluiddyne radiator, and matching hardtop (no I'm not selling it)

      Plans - Dual purpose SCCA X-Prepared autoxer plus a NASA TTU Time Trialer. The car will still be "streetable" but overall it will be a pretty much gutted out dedicated race car. I will retain the dash and some semblance of interior pieces though.

      Project Timeline - The goal right now is to have the car running around the autox course by August. Will it be completely finished by then? Heck no but at least it will be moving quickly under its own power and I can start to work out the bugs. After it runs a few local events, I'll start on the full cage and a bunch of other upgrades that will allow the car to compete in time trials.

      First off, big thanks to the Vorshlag boys for helping to brainstorming this project idea and then getting/building the right parts for the job. *Big disclaimer* - both Fair and Hanchey are long time friends of mine going back 20 years so this thread, of course, will be biased toward their kit.

      As Fair stated, this past weekend saw some great strides as we confirmed that not only the E36 motor mounts worked in the Roadster, but both the tranny crossmember and the headers fit as well with no modifications! So anyone wanting to do a Z3 roadster (or Coupe- please someone do a Coupe!), the Vorshlag LS1 E36 kit is a "bolt-in". The only part I will not be able to use from their off-the-shelf kit is the driveshaft, but I'm going to use their same Vendor. The length is going to be the only the difference. I'll post up pics and dimensions here once that part is ordered/delivered. Vomo will probably take that info and be able to offer it in a Z3 kit Iím sure.

      I'll continue to use this tread to post updates and pictures as the car starts to come together. After I get the headers, steering, and front end back on the car, the next step is to work on the all new fuel system (maybe a fuel cell??), then I'll re-do all the brake lines, cooling system, then I'll finally tackle the complete wiring harness.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLhKZ53h5jg

      The previous owner of this car also posted this video, from when they had the car running an S52 with a huge turbo (11.1@130 mph drag race pass.
      Last edited by Fair!; 01-10-2011, 04:51 PM.
      Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
      2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
      EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

        Update for Jan 26, 2010: Long time no update! After buying, modding and racing the old Vorshlag E30 318is several months ago, McCall has actually been working on this Z3 LS1 project and fits and spurts, with the majority of the progress happening late in 2009. Some old friends flew into town and they spent much of a weekend installing some rear suspension bits. The car now has the rear diff and suspension back in the car, after some much needed fab cleanup and new offset camber adjustment bolts (from Ireland, who source them from an E39 BMW 5-series).


        Fuel system upgrades underway

        He and friend Ed tackled some early fuel system upgrades, adding billet fuel rails, a Fuel Pressure Regulator, and started running -4 braided feed and return lines from the stock tank to.... somewhere. (ignore the caption above that says -8 lines). A gaggle of fittings and line sizes are needed to finish this out. After a brief sidetrack with a potential custom fuel cell (crazy!), and a slight intervention for sanity, the fuel system plan now looks more thought out. An existing Wlabro 255 lph in-tank pump will round out the fuel system, as well as (I hope?) some upgraded injectors and an LS6 intake.


        FAST fuel rails and Aeromotive FP regulator shown installed

        I stopped by on the 26th and brought a "standard E36 length" T56/LS1 swap driveshaft we had built for a customer that week, mocking it up onto the transmission and measuring for fit into the Z3 chassis. The Z3 driveshaft is nearly 10" shorter, but as you can see the shifter location is moved several inches forward of the stock location (which "feels" fine when sitting in the car, actually). The steering shaft also needs to be substantially longer, but all our other Vorshlag E36 LS1 swap parts work in the Z3 without modification, including the headers, motor mounts and trans crossmember.


        Right: I need to make a longer 2-piece steering shaft to attach to the U-joints he purchased from us

        I'm building the driveshaft this week and will take pics of it in the car soon. Also have to make a longer steering shaft. The driveshaft and the final work on the fuel system are the last things needed before tackling the wiring and other plumbing issues (fuel, coolant, brakes). Then... its time to put the wheels back on, fill up the fluids, and crank it.

        Lots to do...
        Last edited by Fair!; 01-10-2011, 07:24 PM.
        Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
        2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
        EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

          Update for May 28th, 2010: Trying to keep Jason motivated on this project is becoming difficult!

          This weekend I'm going to try to get the new Z3 steering shaft built and installed on this car, so it is at least easier to push around. The custom Z3 length driveshaft is already on the car, but damn if I can find any pictures I took...

          More soon!
          Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
          2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
          EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

            Update!!! Yes, it's on like Donkey Kong now and I WANT to get this car running before the end of the summer!

            Fair delivered my beautiful new steering shaft & p1mp driveshaft. The driveshaft is in and I just got new bolts/nuts to mount it to the MZ3 diff so check that off the list. The steering shaft will be in (maybe tonight) so the car is officially a full rolling car again.

            My credit card is still smoking as I just ordered the following-
            LS6 intake/tb/fuel injectors
            Techrod custom wiring harness
            new plugs/wires
            3 last adapters/fitting for the AN fuel system
            Hawk HP+ pads F&R
            Turn-One Power Steering Pump
            Set-back shift lever (I hope it works)
            gas pedal

            Parts that have arrived and need to be installed-
            E36 M3 front calipers/brackets (going to be selling off the non-vented Willwood set-up)
            Two-piece M3 rotors
            Sparco seats/slider
            AN -8 fuel lines, fuel filter, fittings, adapters
            FAST Fuel rail

            Still to be done-
            Mount ABS module (custom bracket needed)
            New front hard brake lines L&R
            Flare/fittings for both rear brake lines
            New SS flex brake lines for the the front
            Mount Radiator (custom brackets needed)
            Determine radiator hoses/overflow solution
            full custom exhaust
            Find used headlights
            install dash/center console
            wiring, wiring, wiring

            So, in the coming weeks I'll be working on this inbetween travel and the $2010 project car. I might also try to plan a few works nights to get some help knocking this stuff out. Pizza/beer will be offered up!
            McCall

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

              You have 30 days till the UTCC. Put in an entry and make it happen. Folks work best under a deadline.




              Costas
              cars and such...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

                So what has a better chance? McCall's roadster or the dirty thirty? Pick one and go people!!
                Brian Hanchey
                AST Suspension - USA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

                  Originally posted by hancheyb View Post
                  So what has a better chance? McCall's roadster or the dirty thirty? Pick one and go people!!
                  Haha, oh it will be the E30 as we've gotten too far to turn back now!!
                  McCall

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

                    Mini update for June 21, 2010: Some pictures of Z3 parts we built for Jason's M Roadster...





                    McCall has a bunch of new accessories to install next.
                    Last edited by Fair!; 01-10-2011, 05:42 PM.
                    Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                    2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                    EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

                      Update for Aug 10, 2010: I'm way behind on many project updates so this is going to be a little fast and loose. I stopped by about a week and a half ago and worked with McCall on his M Roadster LS1 project and we got some stuff knocked out. While he jacked with the diff/subframe/driveshaft I worked on the front accessories.

                      The Vorshlag LS1 kits for the E36 and E36/7 chassis are designed to work with '98-02 Camaro/Firebird LS1 accessories. The correct brackets can be purchased in kits with hardware for around $80-100 on eBay, last time we looked. The 4th gen Camaro's accessories are the most compact of the various LSx engine styles, and McCall had acquired a new alternator, (electric) water pump, and power steering pump to go with his otherwise stock/used 5.7L LS1 engine. He had already installed the water pump, but the rest was waiting to go on, along with several new brackets (to replace missing/damaged ones from the LS1 motor he bought used) and hardware. I started with the alternator.



                      The Camaro/Firebird LS1 alternator is different than other LS1 application alternators in that it mounts in the lower driver's side of the front of the block, its fairly "short" (the pulley is closer to the block), and its tucked in tight to the block for a very narrow installed width. The main front mounting bracket is shown above and attaches with 3 long M10-1.5 bolts through the front of the bracket and into the block, two of which go through the alternator. Some LSx series blocks (the iron truck ones, specifically) do not have the matching center mounting hole in the block for this bracket, but all of them at least have a cast boss there and it can be drilled and tapped to work with this Camaro bracket (we had to do that on the 5.3L LM7 truck block we used in the $2010 E30).



                      Unlike almost all other LSx alternator set-ups, the Camaro alternator has a 2nd smaller bracket that attaches to the back of the alternator and to a drilled and tapped boss on the LS1 block (it's also on all other LSxs), just under the driver's side cylinder head. The best way to get everything to line up is to loosely install the alternator into the front/main bracket and thread the 3 bolts into the block, then loosely attached the rear bracket to the alternator and block, then tighten up all 5 bolts. If you tighten one bracket fully before starting the bolts for the other, the 2nd bracket never lines up. There's a cheap underdrive pulley sold by ASP that McCall wisely added to his alternator; otherwise the stock Camaro alternator likes to "release the magic smoke" when spun above 6500 rpm. It will only release this smoke once, just before death.



                      OK, so the power steering was a bit trickier. The Camaro power steering pump and brackets are more complicated and difficult to remove. He had the old pump/bolts/pulley/bracket assemble but wanted to use the Turn One racing power steering pump - which has an under-driven pulley and a "race prepped pump". We used one on the Alpha car and it worked great, whereas the stock pump would whine loudly and spit fluid when revved on track or autocross course.



                      The main power steering bracket is a cast aluminum part that bolts to the front of the driver's side cylinder head in 3 places. Above you can see the idler pulley that went onto the power steering bracket. Its a simple bolt-on affair, just make sure you get the washer and rear spacer in the right locations (one is flat, one is curved). the pulley should spin freely once tightened onto the bracket, of course. If it doesn't you got it on backwards!

                      Next the power steering pump and smaller half-moon shaped bracket needs be bolted to the head-mounted bracket. Since we were swapping pumps I had to remove the half-moon bracket from behind the pulley, as well as 4 bolts that were held captive. The big (plastic!) pulley has a solid face and unless you have the right puller, those bolts and the 2nd bracket are stock onto the pump. He didn't have the puller we needed so I drilled a giant hole in the plastic pulley and rotated it around until the bolts fell out the hole.



                      Then the bracket fell out, and everything was transferred to the Turn One pump - which is much easier since it has a billet aluminum pulley with giant voids in the face, all of them big enough to slide the bolts through. As you can see here I got lazy and drilled a big hole in the stock nylon pulley to extract all of the bolts. I didn't bring my power steering pump puller set-up, but if you can rent or borrow the proper puller its easier to do it the right way and pull the pulley off.



                      Once the bracket is bolted to the pump (via 2 thru-bolts, 2 shorter bolts into the pump housing) the two long thr0bolts then thread into the bracket mounted to the head. Does that make sense? Its easier to see once you look at it all in front of you. But I've seen more than a few F-body LS1 motors with new power steering pumps mounted with only the 2 long thru-bolts, when people forgot (or were too lazy) to "rescue" the half-moon bracket and the 2 short bolts from the old pump. Not good - get all of the bolts and use them.



                      The longer Z3 steering shaft fit well with the LS1 motor and we've sold several since for use with BMW motors as well. McCall spent the whole night under the car like shown above, and the problems he ran into were traced to some weird pinion angle spacers on the diff housing that came on the car from a previous owner. They point the nose of the pinion down a LOT and it moves the axle flange downward inside the captive opening of the E30/Z3 rear subframe housing - this doesn't work with the giant rear yoke used on the driveshaft we supplied for this car. We'll get the car higher in the air (on the lift!) and re-aim that diff housing before he drives it. This will move the yoke to the center of this oval opening and gain extra clearance, then all will be OK.



                      More soon.
                      Last edited by Fair!; 01-10-2011, 05:58 PM.
                      Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                      2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                      EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

                        Well it's plumbing time! After another night of working with Fair last week (which really turned into a fuel system planning session with another large order placed to Summit), we came to the conclusion that I need to figure out the cooling system first. Namely, I need to determine which coolant reservoir/recovery/expansion tank to use so we can then mount the engine bay fuel components such as the FPR and fuel filter. These two systems will end up sharing space in the passenger side engine compartment near/on the firewall. So after some research and searching, here is the best representation of a proper LS1 coolant routing I could find-

                        I believe this is the exact routing that was used on the Alpha car and was basically duplicated on the GRM E30. So with that in mind, I now need to determine if the Fluidyne radiator that came with the car will in fact work with this routing. Here's a pic of it-



                        There are the two main in/out lines but that's it besides the cap and a non-pressurized overflow tube. Now the big question mark for me with the current radiator is the steam line as there is not any fittings or place for one on it. I just could just have one added locally but is that even worth it? So I'm starting to wonder if this radiator even work with my LS1 set up. Maybe should I start looking at picking up a cheap aluminum one made for a LS1? Since I have to build custom brackets anyway(all the factory ones were cut off by the previous owner probably because of intercooler mounting), my initial thought is to go with a new one built the exact right way. I can easily sell the Fluidyne as it's a direct bolt-in for BMWs and might even be able to swap over the Flex-a-lite fans.

                        Regarding the reservoir itself, Fair and I found this cheap one $23 on Summit's website but I'm not sure it will work-


                        It appears to have the main inlet that will be plumbed to the water pump from the heater line outlet/inlet but I'm not sure about the other two barbs. They appear to be pressurized but I'm not sure. Also, there are two so I'd have to "t" them somehow. There's also not a non-pressurized overflow line. So is this overflow line needed for LS1 applications?

                        Of course on the other extreme is this tank built by Canton for the C5 Corvette (before you start I'm not leaning towards this one as it’s like $180!)



                        That one would "fit" the bill so to speak as it is exactly like I need and even has the “t” for the two heater lines but the sizing (and price) is a bit off for where I want to put it.

                        Canton also makes this universal recovery tank w/clear level sight tube for $99. It also would work perfect mounting and size-wise but again does not offer a non-pressurized vent. Of course Canton might be able to slightly customize it for me-



                        Regarding the mounting, I know the reservoir needs to be higher than the radiator to help with filling but which part needs to be higher? Does the whole thing or just a certain hose inlet?


                        So others here who know more about this than I do, I seek your advice. First off, does everyone agree with the routing diagram? If not, I'm open to other routing ideas. Also, regarding having a non-pressurized vent tube somewhere in the system, how essential is that? To me I think it is important as you need to be able to alleviate the pressure somehow. Do you want that on the surge/expansion/recovery tank or is having that on the radiator better?

                        Ok, ok, am I making too much of this?
                        Last edited by McCall; 12-22-2010, 07:43 PM.
                        McCall

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

                          Originally posted by McCall View Post
                          Ok, ok, am I making too much of this?
                          Yes.

                          Get the $23 reservoir. It will work, trust me. So will your radiator. That's all you need. Easy.

                          And I don't know what you're doing differently in your posts, but you have all sorts of weird font formatting lately. I think its the editor style you've chosen... its making you text all sorts of wacky colors. You can change this in your Options
                          Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                          2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                          EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

                            Originally posted by Fair! View Post
                            Yes.

                            Get the $23 reservoir. It will work, trust me. So will your radiator. That's all you need. Easy.

                            And I don't know what you're doing differently in your posts, but you have all sorts of weird font formatting lately. I think its the editor style you've chosen... its making you text all sorts of wacky colors. You can change this in your Options
                            Ok, I'll order it but you will owe me $23 if it doesn't work.

                            Regarding the weird posts, it looks perfect in IE so it must be your browser. I'll try and make a change though.
                            McCall

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

                              His posts look fine to me in Firefox too.
                              -Sean Martin
                              2009 Pontiac G8 GT

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