E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

[HIDGolf]

Id like to purchase a lightweight E36 chassis to avoid shedding some of the comfort items in the goal of a lightweight sporty car. I have found one 325 and one M3 on ebay (search criteria with manual specified) in the past few weeks. Idealy an early 325is manual with the winterpackage (heated seats and 3.91 LSD).

Anyone know the weight penalty of the sunroof? I know some MINI owners remove the large glass roof and add a carbonfibre panel to drop some serious lbs. I would imagine a 12 year old car without a hole in the roof would be a good thing with the seals starting to give and whatnot.

When talking about weight, anyone know what insulation was omitted for the factory E36 M3 Lightweights? Everything I have read has been very vague.

[hancheyb]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

Yeah, everything I read says 200 pounds from LTW. Bob Tunnell's summary...

WHASSUP WITH THE M3 LTW?
Lots of myths and legends abound, but here's what I know about them.
In reality most LTW's weigh roughly 200 pounds less than a comparably equipped "standard" M3 -- a rare one with no sunroof, LTW interior (like mine), etc. Most of that savings was due to the aluminum door skins, and the lack of A/C or any serious undercoating or sound deadening. (Click here to see Jeff Lloyd's post about M3 LTW specs.)
A standard M3 equipped with sunroof, leather interior, A/C, CD player, etc. could easily weigh 400 pounds more than a zero-option LTW. But most were about 200-250 pounds more than most of the std. M3's on the road.

We've pulled over 300 pounds out of the interior and haven't touched the sunroof yet. I think it is 40 pounds? So 200 less pounds isn't unreasonable.

[Fair!]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

E36 non-sunroof cars are exceedingly rare. My 1997 M3 is one of 2 (non LTW) I have ever seen w/o sunroof. I'm fairly certain no US spec E36 came sunroofless until 1997 model yr. Teucci created a sunroofless 1995 325is because I don't think they exist. I believe the OEM fixed metal roof piece + welding + bodywork + paint to convert a 3 series would be well over $1000. Probably $2000+.

A sunroof car with a fixed CF panel replacement would save some weight and possibly add some much needed headroom, but this is still inferior to a true OEM fixed roof. We will weigh all of the cables, motor and panel when we attack this area of the XP3 car soon. I've heard 30# but after looking at all that junk under the headliner I suspect closer to 50# can be saved. LOTS of junk under there!

With our low budget and loose ruleset we will not do the OEM fixed roof conversion, but rather a shade-tree welded sheet metal roof panel replacement. The loss of structure over the oem setup (the flanged opening from a sunroof or a properly formed fixed roof) will be made up with a proper roll cage. It will be uglier, but thousands
cheaper.

[Paul]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

My 1999 had no sunroof either. At the time I got the car I had no idea how rare that was.

[C3]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

Thad's yellow 99 had no sunroof either. They're around, you just have to look. Headroom (and legroom and non-adjustable wheel) in my car sucks - if I do switch cars that will be one reason why.

[HIDGolf]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

In my notes I found a no sunroof 92 325i sedan on ebay a few weeks ago.

[John in Houston]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

E36 non-sunroof cars are exceedingly rare. My 1997 M3 is one of 2 (non LTW) I have ever seen w/o sunroof. I'm fairly certain no US spec E36 came sunroofless until 1997 model yr.

A guy here in Houston has a 1995 M3 with no sunroof and leather seating. Non-lightweight... and he's the original owner. You've seen the car at Divisionals.

He won't sell it to me

Pretty sure Teucci weighed all of his sunroof mechanicals when they pulled it and it was under 40#. Maybe he'll chime in.

[HIDGolf]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

Does Teucci know how much he spent on removing the sunroof on his 325is? Did he do the work himself?

[John in Houston]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

Does Teucci know how much he spent on removing the sunroof on his 325is?

Yes It was in the neighborhood of $2000 and was done pretty much at cost. Lots of work to get it done correctly... not to mention getting those damn aluminum drip rails back on the car (not) and / or ordering non-destroyed ones from the dealer (not). New headliner... lots of little things to do it 'right'. I was quoted $2500 to do mine.

Did he do the work himself?

No. Richard Tomlin's shop did the work in Friendswood, Tx.

[bfitz]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

I'm fairly certain no US spec E36 came sunroofless until 1997 model yr.

Tunnell's '95 is just like yours: non-LTW, no sunroof, and cloth interior.

Brian

[GoDog]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

Here is another good source for used BMWs:
http://www.roadfly.com/bmw/classifieds/cars/

And sometimes interesting things pop-up on BimmerHaus:
http://bimmerhaus.com/w5.html

[Teucci]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

A guy here in Houston has a 1995 M3 with no sunroof and leather seating. Non-lightweight... and he's the original owner. You've seen the car at Divisionals.

He won't sell it to me

Pretty sure Teucci weighed all of his sunroof mechanicals when they pulled it and it was under 40#. Maybe he'll chime in.

Weight was in the mid 40s.

[HIDGolf]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

Thats good to know. I imagine the roof structure of a sunroof E36 is different besides the roof skin? Extra reinforcements and the like?

[HIDGolf]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

Im guessing I could remove electric motors and wiring running to the sunroof and just keep it closed. But I am unsure if the weight savings would be worth the work if Im still gonna have a hole in the roof. Maybe if the car I find has a bum headliner and Im gonna be in there already...

[McCall]

Re: E36 Project - Sunroof weight?

http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4795

FTW!