BMW Contingency for 2006 includes STU!

[Tommy R]

Re: BMW Contingency for 2006 includes STU!

I posted this on SCCAForums... http://sccaforums.com/forums/ShowThr...=174281#174281

[C3]

Re: BMW Contingency for 2006 includes STU!

If they want people to race the newer cars, then they should stop making them so frakkin heavy and wide. The SCCA community obviously has no problem paying new-BMW money for a play car (see Super Stock), but BMW is missing the mark with the cars they've released recently (most notably nearly every E46 except the 330ci ZHP, sorry SeanT) and are trending the same with the E90 models.

I think we need to call a spade a spade here and realize that the E36 is pretty much the end of the Solo-competitive BMW. With the new M Coupe priced within $1k of the C6 Z06, BMW has lost both the ability to compete on both performance and price and is really irrelavant to the grassroots-motorsports community.

BMW's newer products already speak volumes about how much they really care about folks like us, so I don't see how this contingency thing and their refusal to change it is anything but par for the course. The fact is they're a company, and there is much more in it for them to incentivize a lease to someone who thinks renting a roundel will give them status than there is in doing right by the weekend competitor in a 6-12 year old car.

[hancheyb]

Re: BMW Contingency for 2006 includes STU!

I'm certainly not defending the Z4 Coupe, but the M Coupe stickered at $45k and I think the C5 Z06 stickered for about the same. The M Coupe had 315 hp, the ZO6 had 385 at first. The new one has 505, the new M Coupe is just north of 333 I think. I believe they upped it some. So the deficit on HP has grown some, but I don't think they're too out of wack. 505 hp is extraordinary for 2006, albeit getting more common. BMW is always at least 100 hp behind Corvette and will never be considered a bargain purchase like Corvette.

Another example:
'96 M3 - 240hp, $38k
'96 C4 LT4 - 330hp, low $30's right?

I considered those two for a brief moment in '96. They were too expensive then and they continue to grow in price now and are too expensive for me now. My income is not exceeding the inflation of sports car pricing!

Face it, our demographic has never been for new M3's (Paul and Sean's internet escapades excluded), C6s (save the Fairs), or the like. The new cars we buy are now $25-35k and the used cars we buy are $15-35k, like E46 M3s are about to be. Granted I do agree that BMW is getting away from minimalist sports cars like the 3rd Gen RX-7, but what luxury brand isn't going away from that? Corvette is not a luxury brand.

[C3]

Re: BMW Contingency for 2006 includes STU!

Yeah, I agree with you Brian. Only thing is with Motorsport, BMW is has a performance brand and therefore (justly, IMO) warrants the comparisons with Corvette, Porsche, Lotus, and the like...

[John in Houston]

Re: BMW Contingency for 2006 includes STU!

Just FYI... I believe the E46 is considered a 99 model. Look in the ETK and other BMW literature and the E46 is on the line in 1999. I'm guessing this is because of Euro production and not necessarily US production.

[hancheyb]

Re: BMW Contingency for 2006 includes STU!

I just couldn't resist.

Brian,
Consider your vote counted! It would be nice to have something to fill that gap for autocrossers!
<script><!-- D(["mb","\n\n*
\n\n\n\nJames Hunt
\n\nManagement Associate
\n\nBMW of North America
\n\n201-307-4424
\n\n
\n\n",1] ); //--></script>
James Hunt
Management Associate
BMW of North America
201-307-4424

<script><!-- D(["mb","\n\n\n\n<hr size\u003d\"2\" width\u003d\"100%\" align\u003d\"center\">\n\n
\n\nFrom: Brian Hanchey\n[mailto:hancheyb@gmail.com]
\nSent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006\n10:31 AM",1] ); D(["mb","
\nTo: Hunt James, V4-US-B-1
",1] ); D(["mb","\nSubject: Re: SCCA Awards program
\n\n
",1] ); //--></script>

<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">

From: Brian Hanchey [mailto:hancheyb@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 10:31 AM
To: Hunt James, V4-US-B-1
Subject: Re: SCCA Awards program

<script><!-- D(["mb","<div>- Show quoted text -
<span class\u003de id\u003dq_1090233ed8e6d898_5>\n\n*
\n\nJames,
\nOn another note, I\'d like to add my vote for the 1 Series coming to North America.* The poor, but loyal BMW enthusiast\ndemographic needs a E36 M3 replacement. * And by that I mean a sub $30k\nBMW that could be competitive in autocrossing.
\n
\nThanks,
\nBrian
\n\n<div>\n\nOn 1/24/06, Brian\nHanchey <hancheyb@vorshlag.com>\nwrote:
\n\nThanks James.* Never hurts to ask!
\n
\nBrian
\n\n<div><span>\n\n*
\n\n<div>\n\nOn 1/24/06, James.Hunt@bmwna.com\n<James.Hunt@bmwna.com>\nwrote:
\n\n<div>\n\nBrian,
\n\n
<font size\u003d\"2\" color\u003d\"navy\" face\u003d\"Arial\"><span style\u003d\"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy\">*Thanks for the question as well as your participation\nin motorsports with BMW. Unfortunately, we are unable to make any allowances or\nexceptions to our rules for the 2006 Contingency Program. I would recommend\nthat the best course of action would be to address the issue of class\nrequirements with an SCCA official. ",1] ); //--></script> - Hide quoted text -

James,
On another note, I'd like to add my vote for the 1 Series coming to North America. The poor, but loyal BMW enthusiast demographic needs a E36 M3 replacement. And by that I mean a sub $30k BMW that could be competitive in autocrossing.

Thanks,
Brian

[Fair!]

Re: BMW Contingency for 2006 includes STU!

If they want people to race the newer cars, then they should stop making them so frakkin heavy and wide. The SCCA community obviously has no problem paying new-BMW money for a play car (see Super Stock), but BMW is missing the mark with the cars they've released recently (most notably nearly every E46 except the 330ci ZHP, sorry SeanT) and are trending the same with the E90 models.

I think we need to call a spade a spade here and realize that the E36 is pretty much the end of the Solo-competitive BMW. With the new M Coupe priced within $1k of the C6 Z06, BMW has lost both the ability to compete on both performance and price and is really irrelevant to the grassroots-motorsports community.

BMW's newer products already speak volumes about how much they really care about folks like us, so I don't see how this contingency thing and their refusal to change it is anything but par for the course. The fact is they're a company, and there is much more in it for them to incentivize a lease to someone who thinks renting a roundel will give them status than there is in doing right by the weekend competitor in a 6-12 year old car.

Couldn't agree more.

I made this M Coupe to C6 Z06 comparison the other day on the local BMW mailing list and no one cold argue against it, because it is irrefutable.

Lets say you have $65,000, and you want a performance 2 seat coupe. Z06 vs M Coupe.

+ new Z4 M Coupe: Miata sized yet still 3000 pounds (Z4 3.0L roadtster = 2996 pounds!!!), 345 hp high strung 6, 2 seats, RWD, manual trans $64K price estimate
+ C6 Z06: 3050 pounds, 505 hp meaty V8 (yet revs to 7000, dry sump, getr much better gas mileage, etc), 2 seats, RWD, manual trans, $65K sticker price

Who on earth would buy the M Coupe?? Someone that likes Gray Poupon more than going fast. BMW has LOST THEIR WAY. To be a "ultimate driving machine" its gotta be lighter, faster, more nimble than everyone else. You can't even get a limited slip in a non-M BMW anymore, they get larger and heavier each year, and the cost-to-performance quotient has been getting worse with each new model update.

Look at the latest 330: to get a performance package car with a manual and the typical goodies dealers order you're gonna pay $45K, and there ain't a prayer of turning off the traction control nannies or of ever getting a factory limited slip! The car magazines don't even test the 3 with the normal $30-35K sports sedans because the 3 series, the old "entry level" BMW, has priced itself into near luxury status!

Let's not even look at the M5/M6 BMWs, which have great "numbers" under the hood but such insane electronic nasties and HUGE MASS and FRAKKING CRAZY STICKER PRICES that we'll never, ever even want to own one, much less "race" in one.

BMW is fast becoming a poser sports car brand. LOST THEIR WAY.

[Redwood]

Re: BMW Contingency for 2006 includes STU!

Couldn't agree more.

I made this M Coupe to C6 Z06 comparison the other day on the local BMW mailing list and no one could argue against it, because it is irrefutable.

Lets say you have $65,000, and you want a performance 2 seat coupe. Z06 vs M Coupe.

+ new Z4 M Coupe: Miata sized yet still 3000 pounds (Z4 3.0L roadtster = 2996 pounds!!!), 345 hp high strung 6, 2 seats, RWD, manual trans $64K price estimate
+ C6 Z06: 3050 pounds, 505 hp meaty V8 (yet revs to 7000, dry sump, getr much better gas mileage, etc), 2 seats, RWD, manual trans, $65K sticker price

Who on earth would buy the M Coupe?? Someone that likes Gray Poupon more than going fast. BMW has LOST THEIR WAY. To be a "ultimate driving machine" its gotta be lighter, faster, more nimble than everyone else. You can't even get a limited slip in a non-M BMW anymore, they get larger and heavier each year, and the cost-to-performance quotient has been getting worse with each new model update.

Look at the latest 330: to get a performance package car with a manual and the typical goodies dealers order you're gonna pay $45K, and there ain't a prayer of turning off the traction control nannies or of ever getting a factory limited slip! The car magazines don't even test the 3 with the normal $30-35K sports sedans because the 3 series, the old "entry level" BMW, has priced itself into near luxury status!

Let's not even look at the M5/M6 BMWs, which have great "numbers" under the hood but such insane electronic nasties and HUGE MASS and FRAKKING CRAZY STICKER PRICES that we'll never, ever even want to own one, much less "race" in one.

BMW is fast becoming a poser sports car brand. LOST THEIR WAY.

I can't argue your point about the Z06 being a better performance value. Heck, it's a better performance value than ANYTHING. I will argue some of your numbers as moot as it may be. The C6 Z06 is listed at a curb weight of 3132lbs, not 3050. The latest Autoweek lists 3128lbs for the Z4 M Coupe and estimated $59,000 (yeah it'll be optioned to hell by Classic, but you COULD get a base one). If only the BMW was about $45K like the E36 M3 was new and it'd be an easy replacement for the dated model. *snaps out of it* Sorry, was daydreaming there for a minute. As for the 330i, the sport package (no performance package...yet) is $45K with the typical options, about $40K with the options I'd get. Car & Driver tested the E90 325i with sport package & Sirius for $33,190. 6.1 to 60mph, 161ft braking from 70mph, and 0.87g on the skidpad. That's not a bad price for the performance. I mean, that's the same as the E46 330i sport. You may doubt that being available, but I saw a BASE BASE red 325i at Classic not long ago. It was the ONLY manual tranny car I saw, but that's best saved for an anti-Classic rant.

Yes, we'd all like to see the 130i sport come over here and be the REAL replacement for the E36 M3. Oh and the 3-series traction control is turned off without much trouble. The IS350 on the other hand takes crazy hacks that were only discovered a couple months ago.