Pump Gas in ST classes

[McCall]

pretty interesting thread over at SCCA.forums.

Here's the rulebook:

3.6 FUEL
Stock and Street Touring Class vehicles will use service station
pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is “Federally
approved for use on public highways.” This does not allow
racing-type fuels which are available at service station pumps.


I think this rule tries to rule out all fuels above say 95 octane but does not do a good job of clarifying it. Why not just add an octane limit? Please discuss

[Paul]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

I disagree, Sonoco GT (100) and several other brands have race gas that is Federally approved for all 50 states. So there are choices that are clearly supported within the rules.

[McCall]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

I disagree, Sonoco GT (100) and several other brands have race gas that is Federally approved for all 50 states. So there are choices that are clearly supported within the rules.

Your answer just proves my point. I will bold what I mean. Being Federally approved only qualifies it for half of the rule. The other part about it being race gas that just happens to be available at a pump is clearly upheld. The intent of the rule is to have people only run only normal fuels, not race gas. Like I said, if they would just list a maximum octane rating any other argument would be moot.

[Paul]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

Your arguement doesn't really hold water as I said "race gas" and not Sonoco. They refer to it as DoT legal gas. It, along with several others fall within the purvue of the rule and are readily available at Nationals in the Sonoco tent for competitor use.

[McCall]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

Your arguement doesn't really hold water as I said "race gas" and not Sonoco. They refer to it as DoT legal gas. It, along with several others fall within the purvue of the rule and are readily available at Nationals in the Sonoco tent for competitor use.

Just because you can buy it at Nationals doesn't mean its ST legal. Hoosier slicks are sold there as well so does that mean I can run those in ST?

Again, it's how you define a race-type fuel. If you go to Sonoco's race gas website, which is www.racegas.com (hmmm...) and to look up their 100 octane spec, you have to click on "racing fuel specs" (hmmm....). Also, funny how their race gas site is seperate from their gas station site: http://www.sunocoinc.com/market/gasolinef.htm (no mention of getting 100 here at the pump)

You keep hiding behind the dot aspect for fail to see that even though it's federally approved, it's still a race gas. Basically, it meets half the rule but is not fully compliant.

[Paul]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

OK, you do whatever you want to do. I am running Sonoco GT and will sleep just fine. Just not up for the "devil's advocate" stuff right now.

ps: It is available at the pump AND is "Federally approved for use on public highways.” . That makes it legal in my book.

[Fair!]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

McCall's argument holds more water, I feel. The whole part about "this does not allow for racing type fuels available at gas pumps" pretty much means no 100 Octane Sunoco - with the current wording.

The non-turbo cars are down 100-150 hp to the boost buggies already. For f**k's sake, all they need is more octane and boost!

EDIT: We had multiple (turbo) people threatening protest over a nearly identical-to-stock, 2-point lower sub-frame brace (a stick of tubing with 2 bolts) for Hanchey's M3. A completely non-performance enhancing mod, as the part we "replaced" (i.e. lost) was no better or worse than the part we built to replace it with. So, you don't think something substantial like boost adding octane is going to get scrutinized???

[Paul]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

I just don't see how it doesn't fit within the stated rules. It is pump gas and it is 50 state DoT legal. The race fuels in pumps I believe it is referring to is the high octane not-DoT-legal stuff. No where does it state what the ocatane rating can or cannot be. I really don't know where you got the 95 from either.

What about fuel additives such as Torco?

[McCall]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

I just don't see how it doesn't fit within the stated rules. It is pump gas and it is 50 state DoT legal. The race fuels in pumps I believe it is referring to is the high octane not-DoT-legal stuff.

Aren't R-compound tires DOT legal? Just proves that requirement is meaningless and the rule/wording should be revised.

No where does it state what the ocatane rating can or cannot be. I really don't know where you got the 95 from either.

No, it does not and hense that is part of my argument that the rules need to be updated. Adding an octane rating would help the class, just like tire limitations, etc. Also, I picked 95 out of the air knowning that 94 is readily available in some parts of the country.

[John in Houston]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

This is probably the same 'pump-gas' rule that is in Street Mod. Basically it came down to, "If you can pump it out of something, it's legal".

Of course, this rule was intentionally vague so that Denis could run 120 octane race fuel with his mega-boost-hoopty-canuck-mobile and not blow up the engine (too bad it couldn't save the other craptastic parts on the car).

Personally, I agree that the rule should be octane based. <100 octane.

[Paul]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

I think federally approved (50 state) fuel should be the limiting factor. That makes it very clear. Oh wait, doesn't it say that now?

Again, what about fuel additives?

[beavis]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

The last part of the rule says "This does not allow racing-type fuels which are available at service station pumps." In my book 100 octane is definitely race-type fuel. While it may be available, I doubt it's readily available (at every Sunoco station). This rule is WAY too vague to be effective. I haven't run an SCCA event in, well, forever, but I'd bet that if push came to shove (protest), the more conservative interpretation would prevail. Not to be d!cks, but just to keep someone from taking advange of a loop-hole, no matter how small it is. 100 octane definitely gives an advantage over 93 octane....

I agree with McCall--a hard octane limit needs to be set so as to eliminate any wiggle room.

[D323]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

would high octane pump gas from an airport count? One of my friends works at Addison airport, and told me he could get me high octane pump gas (its not labeled race gas anywhere) for about 2.50/gal. Apparently it is forsale to the public.

[instigator]

Re: Pump Gas in ST classes

would high octane pump gas from an airport count? One of my friends works at Addison airport, and told me he could get me high octane pump gas (its not labeled race gas anywhere) for about 2.50/gal. Apparently it is forsale to the public.

That is low lead avaitaion fuel so I am sure it is not cosidered pump gas.