January 6, 2005

[Redwood]

-THX Certified Second Generation Car Audio System Debuts in 2006 Lincoln Zephyr
-Detroit Auto Show Photos
-Mercedes thinks young with B-Class; vehicle expected to be priced below C-Class
-Car News briefs: BMW on the hot seat with recall; F-Series breaks own sales record
-VW favors diesels to cut emissions
-New tiny scooters are all the rage
-Car warms up without idling
-Chrysler Decides Not To Build ME Four-Twelve Sports Car
-BMW Williams F1 announces new partners

[Hunter]

Re: January 6, 2005

Chrysler Decides Not To Build ME Four-Twelve Sports Car

Man and I already had money down

[hancheyb]

January 6, 2005

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.h...05211033.shtml

[Fair!]

January 6, 2005

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html?http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlin...05211033.shtml

Seven-time Formula One World Champion Michael Schumacher, who has donated 10 million dollars to the victims of last week's Asian tsunamis, revealed on Wednesday that one of his bodyguards died in the tragedy.

WHOA! That's pretty cool to donate $10M.

[theflux]

January 6, 2005

Chrysler not building the ME412 (which I thought was absolutely gorgeous) is just another sign that worries me. For a time I thought that they were becoming more performance conscious, especially after the 300C and SRT-8 variant. However, it is apparent that they are letting the viper stagnate - a coupe edition with no change in horsepower or performance? They are asking to be destroyed by the new Z06. Don't get me wrong I love the Viper, or at least I used to before they basically abandoned it. The next sign is their ugly as sin idea for the Charger. I am hoping that all of the concepts I have seen have been way off. I love the 300C and I think that the Magnum doesn't look too bad either, but that is a long way of saying I want the Charger to have similar styling. Mark my words, Dodge, if you give it four doors and no manual, this car will bite you in the ass.

[Fair!]

January 6, 2005

Chrysler not building the ME412 (which I thought was absolutely gorgeous) is just another sign that worries me. For a time I thought that they were becoming more performance conscious, especially after the 300C and SRT-8 variant. However, it is apparent that they are letting the viper stagnate - a coupe edition with no change in horsepower or performance? They are asking to be destroyed by the new Z06. Don't get me wrong I love the Viper, or at least I used to before they basically abandoned it. The next sign is their ugly as sin idea for the Charger. I am hoping that all of the concepts I have seen have been way off. I love the 300C and I think that the Magnum doesn't look too bad either, but that is a long way of saying I want the Charger to have similar styling. Mark my words, Dodge, if you give it four doors and no manual, this car will bite you in the ass.

2 door cars never sell well in the US. Camaro, Firebird, GTO, etc. I can count the successful domestic 2 door cars currently on one hand... no, make that finger: The 2005 Mustang is an institution and will buck this trend.

The ME412 was going to cost HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to develop for produciton and would have been expensively priced, and never remotely profitable. The Ford GT taught Ford a valuable lesson - all new, scratch built race cars for the street are EXPENSIVE to design, take forever to get into production, and it was cheaper for them to let Saleen build the dang thing at his facility. Ford will lose money on each and every FordGT sold - forever. This is an expensive Halo car...

But Ford NEEDED a halo car, as it has no real sports car, ZERO cars built by SVT for 2005, and a bunch of boring and slow selling sedans. F150 and SUVs are doing generally well, except the money losing Excursion and Aviator. Lightning is gone, Marauder was a flop, no Cobra, no Focus SVT. The halo car "prominse" that was the FordGT (even tho they are grossly late and in no showrooms) helped prop up Ford's performance rep (with zero substance) until the Mustang came out, which is the new dealership magnet.

GM has the C6 coupe and convert and the upcoming Z06, as well as a boring but fast GTO, the Solstice in the Fall, some Pontiacs (G6, GXP thing) Caddys (CTS-V, STS, STS-V, and that XLR no one is buying), and the SSR truck thing (no one is buying) to attract buyers into the showroom to buy their shite cars. Now the Monte Carlo gets a LS1 varient and the Malibu Maxx is a holden/opel derivative. Not too shabby, but they have some work cut out for them. C6 Z06 is a halo car... for the masses. $75K and world beating performance. NEAT TRICK!

Chrysler has the 300C, 500hp Viper coupe and roadster (both look GOOD and go FAST AS HOLY HELL), the Viper Competition Coupe (tube framed race car that wasn't even crazy Ferrari 360 expensive!), 2 Dodge truck SRT-10 varients with 500hp, Neon SRT-4 which is burning up the import crowd, the RWD Crossfire, and the upcoming Crossfire SRT-6 and 300C SRT-8. That's a helluva sporty line-up compared to... just about anyone, and way more than any domestic builder. If I ran Chrysler (just call me "Gunter") I wouldn't have wasted the development budget on some bullshit supercar that no one could afford, like the ME412, either...

I like seeing car makers develop sports/sporty cars that real humans can buy. Ford needs an SVT version of these: Lincoln LS, F150, Focus (with 200+ hp and AWD - go to Eurpoe and get the Focus RS design!), 500, the 427 Concept Car (sweet), and SVT Mustang Cobra. Like... NOW. Instead they burned thousands of engineering hours and millions upon millions of dollars on an all-aluminum space age doo-dad race car that no one we know will ever own. And it needed a stinkin dry sump, DOHV V8 with a BLOWER to make 500hp. That motor is $50,000... yes, $50,000. For the engine. Yawn... The C6 Z06's LS7 will make 500hp with a $10,000, NA V8 and one camshaft. It is also smaller than a 747's turbine...

Chrysler has a dozen+ cars that have big power, decent suspensions and a sporty flair right now, or real soon. The Charger copuld look better, yes, but they had a big hit with the 300C and deserve a mulligan. Yes, they need a more dedicated sports car slotted between the Viper and 300C, and maybe the Charger will fit that bill. Yes, it needs a manual and a diet... but 2 doors is asking a lot. NO ONE buys them in the USA.

Rambling...

Wait, who the hell is theflux? PUT YOUR FULL NAME IN YOUR PROFILE, PEOPLE! We don't need random lurkers.

[theflux]

January 6, 2005

My name is Keith Wilcox =)

You make a lot of good points in your post...I probably overdramatized the situation. I really liked the ME412, wanted the Viper to have more power (I had read rumors of a v10 version of the 6.1 Hemi @625hp), and really got excited about Charger (the only car of these three I can reasonably afford) up until I saw what it looked like. I wasn't trying to troll, I just was reeling from three sucker punches.

[Redwood]

January 6, 2005

I'm guessing it will be secretly launched at Detroit since it's not on the lists I've seen, but the new Car & Driver has the Chrysler Firepower! (exlamation point is in the name ) It's said to be a Corvette fighter and uses the 425hp 6.1L Hemi. Estimated price is around $50K . Est. Curb Weight is 3400lbs though....uses the Viper chassis.

It looks VERY good and very much like the Ford GR-1. I bet that will make Ford go very limp when they see that! You may be asking yourself, what's the catch? In usual Chrysler fashion, something can't be perfect. It will only compete with the AUTOMATIC C6.

[Fair!]

January 6, 2005

I'll give you that - there is always a catch with Chrysler...

1st gen Viper: had terrible brakes (no ABS and bad proportioning) and 3400 pounds, bad fit and finish and extremely expensive body panels (repairs)

2nd gen Viper: price is too high (double the price of a 400hp C6), still too heavy

Prowler: looks great, crappy V6 and automatic

300C: great power, too heavy, too cushy (ride), automatic only. Did I mention heavy?

Magnum Wagon: big motor, semi-cool looks, but heavy as hell and rear cargo volume is extremely compromised with sloping rear roofline.

SRT-4: its... a neon? FWD.

Dodge SRT-10 trucks: $50K, get 5 mpg, 22" wheels?!

Charger: 4 doors and automatic, plus questionable styling

F1REP0W3R! : queer name and automatic trans only

Crossfire: Too much $, 18-20" wheels ride like @ss.

Chrysler is almost there. They need to get more manuals into their cars, trim the fat on everything, and make some lower cost options for performance. The F1REP0W3R! might be a better Corvette fighter but not with a slushbox.

Everyone needs a 2005 Mustang GT fighter. NOW. $24K, 300hp, RWD, manual, awesome looks. If these targets could be met at 3000 pounds or less I'd buy it TODAY just out of spite.

[theflux]

January 6, 2005

Amen to everyone needing a mustang fighter. The new mustang looks great, and you cant beat 300hp for the price. Rear axle = hrm but thats about my only complaint.

What I dont understand is why there is no competition. I read an interview with one of the GM bigwigs that said the ls1 is cheaper to produce than the MOD 4.6 by about $800 because of its OHV design. Is it really that hard to create a car with nearly identical specs (so that the price is competitive) but with an ls1/ls2 variant? Hell I would even take their new 5.3 litre. I always had a soft spot for the 327.