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Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

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  • Fair!
    replied
    Re: Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

    Project Update #3: I worked for about 6 hours on the E30 Saturday and got a lot of little stuff done. Beautiful weather, nicest day of the year to date. Measured the starting ride height & camber at each corner, track width front and rear (63" and 63-1/2" from outer sidewall to sidewall - that's narrow!) and then measured a bunch of other random stuff. Once it was on the lift I cut off the rotted OEM muffler to keep from banging my head on it, as it was hanging down about 20 degrees from horizontal.


    Yummy - a diff leak we'll surely have to address. Looks like fairly new Voughtland springs and KYB Gas-A-Just shocks

    The goal became "get some weight off" and we did. Thanks to Paul M for stopping by from 1-3 pm to help - we got the front and rear bumpers and supports off, all of the bumper trim pieces, and both horns. I also swept the bottom of the car free of cob webs (there were a LOT!) and blew out pounds of dirt and mud from the bumper areas.


    ~78 pounds of crap removed

    Just for grins we test fit the 18x10s to the car, but I will say this one time: we cannot afford to use the 18x10" wheels on the car for the GRM Challenge. Just wanted to get an idea of what a 10" wide wheel would look like. We're looking at lightweight steel circle track wheels for our final solution. So this was hardly the technical test fit that the car needs, just a quick "lets take a look" picture or two of the 18x10 D-Force wheels with 265/35/18 tires slid under the fenders of the E30 with the suspension near ride height. It looks like the flares we will end up with should only be 2-2.5" wide, which is manageable. This would put our track width on 10" wheels at around 67" wide - which is still pretty narrow (that's about what the E36 M3 is on stock wheels, which is a narrow car).



    And here's a quick comparison of the E36 non-M 5-lug brakes to the E30 stuff.


    Our selection of cheap 15x10 steel wheels in 4x100 is "zero". The potential E36 5-lug swap opens up our wheel (and strut!) options considerably

    Once I got the old 14x6" E30 wheels back on I rolled it outside, washed the whole car including the newly revealed areas under the bumpers, and claybarred the hood, trunk and a fender (didn't help - that paint is dead!). Rolled it back in, stored all of the removed parts, and put the 1 full pound of nuts and bolts that were removed today in the "used bolt box".


    The bumperless look isn't terrible, but we'll still cover these areas up with some smooth sheet metal - aluminum or steel

    All told we pulled nearly 80 pounds out of the car today. Each aluminum bumper was 15-18 pounds each, the bumper shocks were fairly heavy, the muffler was over 10 pounds, and it just all added up. Weight is now down to 2359 lbs (that's already 15 pounds lighter than the 4 cylinder '91 318is was when fully prepped for STS), so a 2300 pound goal should be achievable. Good stuff.


    We re-weighed the car for all of the doubters...

    Until next time,

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  • DBeck
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    Re: Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

    Look like, so far so good to me.

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  • Fair!
    replied
    Re: Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

    Originally posted by HPDE30 View Post
    I'd be really interested to see the weight difference. The M20 isn't nearly as heavy as a M30 from my experience lugging the parts around, and I've never seen an actual accurate weight measurement of the M20. If it's possible, please weigh the old engine/tranny combo?
    Of course the old BMW M20 + trans will be weighed. For reference here's a weight on a BMW M42 + Getrag from an E36 4 banger, and an LS1 + T56 drivetrain that went back into that car (E36 LS1 swap). We haven't had an M50/52 car yet to weigh, but I've seen pictures of M50 weights taken like this that were within 10 pounds of the LS1 motor:




    L: BMW 1.8L M42 + Getrag = 427 lbs. The trans alone was 68 lbs. R: Aluminum 5.7L LS1 + T56 6-spd = 609 lbs

    Originally posted by HPDE30 View Post
    I'd love to have more power in my car, but most of the options just don't appeal to me. This is an interesting way to go, but I'm waiting to see what happens when you actually lower the engine in...
    So are we... so are we.

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  • HPDE30
    replied
    Re: Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

    Hey, how about an Ecotec instead... (Brian D at CC)

    Originally posted by Fair! View Post
    Big cast iron straight six shouldn't be much if any lighter than the aluminum V8 we're using,
    I'd be really interested to see the weight difference. The M20 isn't nearly as heavy as a M30 from my experience lugging the parts around, and I've never seen an actual accurate weight measurement of the M20. If it's possible, please weigh the old engine/tranny combo?

    I'd love to have more power in my car, but most of the options just don't appeal to me. This is an interesting way to go, but I'm waiting to see what happens when you actually lower the engine in...

    Leave a comment:


  • Shortcutsleeping
    replied
    Re: Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

    Ya know....when the guy who build/ran a v8 monza rally car, does LeMons events and has a homebuilt Gt1 car becomes the voice of reason then you know we coulda REALLY ended up way WAY out there...

    It's a good starting plan though, looking forward to seeing it progress. I think we're on the right path.


    Costas
    cars and such...

    Leave a comment:


  • Fair!
    replied
    Re: Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

    Project Update #2: The first Team Meeting last night went great (5 of the 7 initial team members were able to make it) and we fleshed out a good plan for the entire project. Costas and others on the team talked me out of even more "crazy" (like Lexan, custom intake/throttle bodies, E36 5-lug spindles swap, and some other unnecessary mods I had talked about early) and its going to be a very reasonable, and much more believable build now. We're aiming for an honest-no-bullsheet! street car, which should still be a very capable track, auto-x or drag strip terror, and hopefully much easier on the eyes and engineering brain than some other low cost swaps out there.

    The guys did the gearing and tire height calculations and we settled on a final drive ratio (3.23), tire (275/35/15 Hoosier), wheels (lightweight steel 15x10"), and transmission (T5). Came up with a motor plan, suspension plan, autocross test plan, aero plan, and agreed upon the flares and some other subtle body mods. We're are also keeping the full interior, fully functional doors, and all OEM windows. Why not do all the weight savings possible? Well, for one, this car's interior is too nice, and for two, the damn thing is already lighter than we had expected.

    Here's the first bit of useful tech for the project - the starting weight:



    This 2436 pound weight is with everything stock, at full weight, A/C installed, full interior, heavy stock exhaust, etc. Well, it does have a lighter than stock battery, and the radio is missing, but that's it. Big cast iron straight six isn't super light, and we've got several weight savings mods in the works, so we think we'll meet or exceed our target weight even with the interior and glass.

    Next, after two weeks of hounding him via phone and email, I finally got a local guy selling a complete VH45 motor on CraigsList to meet us this afternoon. Got lucky again, and it was only 15 minutes from Dave's house. We rolled up, unloaded the engine hoist, grabbed the motor and the wheelbarrow full of parts (which included all of the accessories, ECM, full harness, and everything he had partially disassembled), paid the guy $60 cash, and off we went! He said he only paid $90 for the entire package from a local "U-Pull-It" discount salvage yard, so he didn't lose much money when he canceled his VH45 + 240SX swap.




    L: VH45 longblock + alt + intake was 430 pounds (not bad). R: Complete motor + accessories was 514 lbs (sprockets, covers, balancer, and accessories were heavy!)


    L: Exhaust manifold was a bit portly. R: Entire engine is 28" wide, but I think we can trim that considerably by relocating the oil filter.

    Worst case - this motor has some terminal flaw, or ends up being too big to fit this chassis, and its only used for mock-up purposes. At $60 it was well worth it, and the harness and ECM are a big bonus if we end up going the VH45 route. Next week we're focusing on weighing several other major components from the car and getting the old motor running. Then we'll yank the stock drivetrain (to sell it) and mock-up the VH45 for the first time...

    More soon.
    Last edited by Fair!; 11-06-2009, 04:19 PM.

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  • John in Houston
    replied
    Re: Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

    ... and?

    Who is the team?

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  • Fair!
    replied
    Re: Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

    First Team meeting tonight at 7... see yall here!

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