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  #21  
Unread 01-11-2011, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Project Update for Jan 11, 2011: This is a quick one, and its all about bling (preserving the factory finish and headlight glass). Costas came by last week and installed a full XPEL clear film paint protection kit, since the Mustang was still showroom fresh and unscathed by cone damage or rock chips. He installed the rocker panel kit, the "bikini" hood and front fender kits, the side mirror film, the under door handle film, and the door edge guard film kits.


Me and AJ did some Meguiers Quick Detail clean-up and let Costas take over


Costas is a master of patience, having never installed a film kit to this chassis it all went on and off several times before he locked it down


Once the clear film was on and dried its hard to even see where it starts/stops. Invisible protection.

After finishing the body protection film Costas installed the headlight cover kits.

That are tinted.

...Yellow....





I know its not going to please everyone's tastes... but it will keep the rock chips from the glass housings, and it is distinctive. We had a generally very positive response to the yellow XPEL headlight covers on the EVO X, so I figured... what the hell? And in ALMS the yellow XPEL light covers signified a different class of race cars, which was helpful in night races. So it has... a racing tie-in, sort of.


Amy and I did the headlight install on the EVO, dry, which still took us ~90 minutes. Costas made it look so easy this time

It looks a bit unusual in this indoor/fluorescent lighting, but in person it is more subdued and kinda... neat. I dunno.


Costas said "the red and yellow matches your shirt", so somehow that made it ok?

Just didn't want to distract you guys when you saw pics from this coming weekend's track event, with the yellow headlights... Just get the "Ahh! what have you done!" complaints out now.



Stuart @ AST-USA put the magic valving on our 4100 AST kit today and its being installed tomorrow. The wheels/tires are scheduled to arrive tomorrow also. Next thread update will be much more technical, with 90% less bling.

Thanks,

Last edited by Fair!; 01-12-2011 at 11:52 AM.
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  #22  
Unread 01-18-2011, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Project Update Jan 18, 2011: We got a lot accomplished on the Mustang over the past week, including installing the first set of AST 4100s, our first set of Hyperco springs, another set of Vorshlag camber plates, and the 18x9" Enkeis and 265/40/18 Yokohama ADVAN AD08s. Then we had the car aligned again at COBB and got it ready to take to the track for Saturday Jan 15th, where Costas and I ran it at the NASA Instructor clinic. Busy week... let's catch up.

AST 4100 on S197 install gallery = here



Stuart at AST-USA put the valving mojo on this set of 4100s, based on the spring rates we discussed and experience he has on his own S197 with ASTs. We picked them up Wednesday and AJ started the install on by getting the Mustang on the lift. He quickly removed the stock front struts assemblies (these had the Eibach lowering springs + Vorshlag plates - which we left intact) and then started on the rear, so I could make a spring perch adapter for the back.



Normally this AST 4100 S197 set comes with a machined black Nylon rear spring adapter, but they were out of stock and only had this set of shocks on hand from a previous test set. No worries, I got the measurements and machined two spring adapters on the manual lathe. Took me too long but I finally got the 3" OD Nylon cylinder whittled down to size, and they slide over the alignment cups on the rear axle. The AST adjustable ride height platforms fit over the Nylon adapter pieces, and the 2.5" ID x 8" x 200#/in Hyperco springs fit onto those, and slide inside the upper OEM spring alignment stub.



As convenient as the inverted rear single adjustable shocks are to adjust on the current 4100 S197 sets, we're working on a new set-up with AST-USA that will go to a standard arrangement + the body will get shorter; this all will give us more stroke at a lowered ride height. We set-up the ride height at the rear to 15.5", same as with the Eibach Pro lowering springs, for now.



Up front we went with a 60mm x 7" x 450 #/in Hyperco spring and a set of our camber/caster plates + 60mm double row bearing upper perches, all placed on the standard 4100 S197 strut. We set the ride height at 15", same as before. We're also working with AST-USA on a new 4100 strut arrangement that will keep the same stroke but allow a 1" lower ride height up front, as well as a double adjustable that is completely different. Look for several more AST shock designs to be tested on this car throughout 2011.

Once the ASTs were on we mounted up we scheduled an alignment check at COBB Tuning Plano for Thursday. I took the car by there and they were amazed that AJ had eyeballed the caster, camber and toe almost spot on. They just had to tweak the toe and we were done in minutes. The car ended up with -2.8 camber, +7.2 caster, and 3/16" total toe out (that was probably a bit excessive, in hindsight, and we'll bring it in to 0" toe for future track events). The ride quality was exceptional, as always, even with radically more front spring rate. We left the rear rates low on purpose, to hopefully help put power down for auto-x use. We might end up with two different spring rates for track and auto-x use - testing different rates at both types of events will show us more, which we'll share.


(click alignment sheet thumbnail above to see larger version)

When I got back from the alignment the tires and wheels had arrived from Tire Rack, and I only had to get one loose tire mounted to the "Test fit" wheel we had ordered earlier. AJ got those mounted up and they looked good.


Click the wheel and tire pics for larger versions

Friday I dropped off dealer orders around town in the Mustang to hopefully get the silicone mold release off the tires, then drove an hour across town at days end to head to Costas' place - they weren't very scrubbed but oh well, we'd get them good and scrubbed in at the track... right?



Wrong - it rained for the next 24 straight hours. It started raining as soon as I arrived at Costas', and we had to load the car onto his borrowed open trailer in the rain. Since we had a simple "in state" tow of only 4 hours, and we weren't bringing much in the way of gear/tires/spares (1 day event), we just used his buddy's open trailer and Costas' truck to tow down with - instead of hauling out my 38' enclosed gooseneck or his 28' enclosed tag trailer for this simple day at the track. Saves a ton on gas and towing with a little 18' open trailer is a total BREEZE compared to either of our big enclosed rigs. We could have driven the car down, but with so many new parts we didn't want to risk some silly failure sidelining us, and we had to be back in Dallas by 6 pm that day.

So we left DFW at 4 am Saturday morning and got down to San Marcos at 7:45am, unloaded, and were ready for the NASA instructor clinic by 8. It rained the entire way down and all day at Harris Hill Road, plus it was cold as balls. We still had fun, even if we didn't get any meaningful testing/data/video on the Mustang, due to the crappy conditions (standing water in most turns, visibility was poor, and grip was non-existent). Costas was an "instructor trainer" and I was there as an instructor trainee, hoping to get signed off for NASA (which could potentially give me a little flexibility at NASA events to take people for ride-thrus). The event was a blast (event write-up located here; picture gallery here) and we both got some good (soaking wet) track time in the Mustang.



Costas took around his trainees in the first 2 of 3 training scenarios in the car while I rode with "mock students" in their cars during the same tests, trying to point out their driving errors (on purpose), proper lines, etc. In the 3rd scenario I drove a "mock student" (Costas) around at 80% speed in my car to show the proper lines, techniques, etc. It was easy and fun, but just not that exciting due to the severely reduced speeds (rain + training). Luckily, after lunch they let us all loose on the track for a fun session, which ended up being about 35 minutes of quicker lapping in the rain. That session made the day!


The Yokohama AD08s were extremely planted in the wet

The Mustang was a blast to drive, even in the wet. 4th gear around the whole track (3rd just caused wheel spin), and with the AD08s and ASTs the car could seemingly pass anything out there. Lots and lots of fun. Big thanks to Costas for towing the car down, shooting so many pictures (430?!) in the rain, and for signing me off on the instructor deal.


There were no fewer than six 2010-2011 Mustangs at H2R that day

So next up - we've got the first real NASA Texas TT/HPDE/race event in 2 weeks (MSR-Houston), which we plan to attend, but the first Dallas area autocross we can make isn't until Feb 27th. We're looking at everyone's schedule and there's literally 4 autocross groups with events the same weekend as the first NASA event - damn it, why does this happen every year??

Anyway, lots more changes are in store for the Mustang. The splitter we're using is supposed to be available in about 2 weeks, and we have several other (STX legal) aero parts planned during the same time frame. Then headers + exhaust + cold air + tuning.

Stay tuned,

Last edited by Fair!; 04-03-2013 at 07:20 PM.
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  #23  
Unread 01-19-2011, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

great progress! Keep it up. I'm a big fan of the yellow lights too btw.
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  #24  
Unread 01-20-2011, 02:26 PM
murph murph is offline
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Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Whoa, 450/200??? That seems awfully low, even with fairly high motion ratios, have you measured them? I suppose with 400 whp, power-on rotation probably isn't hard to come by. =]
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  #25  
Unread 01-21-2011, 10:32 AM
S.F. Maxcy S.F. Maxcy is offline
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Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

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Originally Posted by murph View Post
Whoa, 450/200??? That seems awfully low, even with fairly high motion ratios, have you measured them? I suppose with 400 whp, power-on rotation probably isn't hard to come by. =]
I run 350/175 on my 06 S197 and I still need to re-valve my rear shocks to be softer. I have tried running 700/250...it ends up making the car crazy loose...but nothing else. Softer is without a doubt the way to go.
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  #26  
Unread 01-21-2011, 10:34 AM
Thinkkker Thinkkker is offline
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Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Hahahaha.

No seriously, I am laughing. I guess that I should not let you guys drive mine. Maybe its twitchy, but I like the way it feels!

If you guys wonder why, double what Terry posted and your around what I run
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Unread 01-21-2011, 11:45 AM
S.F. Maxcy S.F. Maxcy is offline
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Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

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Originally Posted by Thinkkker View Post
Hahahaha.

No seriously, I am laughing. I guess that I should not let you guys drive mine. Maybe its twitchy, but I like the way it feels!

If you guys wonder why, double what Terry posted and your around what I run
To each their own.

I'll stick to what certain professional teams have told me.
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Last edited by S.F. Maxcy; 01-21-2011 at 11:49 AM.
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Unread 01-21-2011, 11:54 AM
Thinkkker Thinkkker is offline
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Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Hey, for track, I know what I would do with mine and I would not sit at the rates that I have. For the AutoX, the car felt better and better with more rate *bumpy lots made the car jump some, but smoother lots it seems to like it*.

The only thing I have noticed from my experience is the rates will need to be fairly different for each setup *autox vs. open track*. So, it makes me wonder where the optimization may be pushed for? I check in on progress regularly so I wait to see the results!

As you said.....to each their own. And I have been called various things over the years so....
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Unread 01-21-2011, 12:13 PM
S.F. Maxcy S.F. Maxcy is offline
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Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

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Originally Posted by Thinkkker View Post
Hey, for track, I know what I would do with mine and I would not sit at the rates that I have. For the AutoX, the car felt better and better with more rate *bumpy lots made the car jump some, but smoother lots it seems to like it*.

The only thing I have noticed from my experience is the rates will need to be fairly different for each setup *autox vs. open track*. So, it makes me wonder where the optimization may be pushed for? I check in on progress regularly so I wait to see the results!

As you said.....to each their own. And I have been called various things over the years so....
I agree with you. For AutoX I would go with higher spring rates.
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  #30  
Unread 01-24-2011, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Project Update for Jan 24, 2011: The first NASA Time Trial event we're running in is this weekend at MSR-Houston, so its time to look at TT classing for the Mustang. Of course we had been keeping track of everything in our spreadsheet for this car, but I wanted to share it with everyone, hopefully to help people see how "Easy" it is to class a car with NASA TT. The rules and classing for NASA TT are a bit confusing, some would even say very confusing, but the basic classes go like this (from slowest to fastest): TTF -> TTA. But its nothing at all like SCCA classes/categories. Its.. "simpler"... you just find your base class, add up points for every mod you've done, and figure out where the car goes.

So to start the classing process, we have to know where we begin. Each car is assigned a "base classing", some with penalty points already assessed, and then you can count the additional "points" for any modifications done. Each class has 19 points worth of mods you can do, then you bump up to the next class at +20, and if you keep adding points you might go to the one past it. There's a set power-to-weight ratio limit within each class, and all sorts of modifiers for the power-to-weight number, too. Once you bump out of TTA you go up into the TTS>TTU>TTR classes, which do away with all of the "points" and are strictly power-to-weight ratio based classes. Clear yet?

Let's start out with the base classing for the "S197" chassis (2005-2012+) Mustang GT:
  • '05-06 Mustang GT is TTD**
  • '07-10 GT is TTC
  • '11 GT is TTB
The two asterisks after the TTD class above means the '05-06 GT starts out in TTD class but begins its tally with +14 penalty points (each asterisk are worth +7), so that car can only do +5 worth of mods before going up to TTC.

So the 2011 GT with the new 412hp 5.0L got bumped up a full class from the 2010 GT, and the minimum race weight jumped dramatically to 3770 lbs (with driver). That series of base classing changes, to me, seemed to coincide with the power and suspension updates that the Shelby GT350 had for '07-08, which was an optional package those years. So the full class bump (a huge change) for the '11 GT had to include the power + the Brembo brakes, right?

Wrong. I got the bad news on the NASA forums today about more points assigned to our Mustang. This little tid-bit isn't even in the class rules, but is noted at the bottom of an online form for TTA-TTF classing:
Quote:
Proceed to calculate your vehicle’s modification points assessment for up-classing purposes. Fill in the blanks with the number of modification points assessed for each item that affects your vehicle. You may leave the lines blank next to modifications that your vehicle does not have. Proceed to Page 2, and calculate all modification points’ assessments, then fill in total points below. ALL Factory Options and Parts Not on the Base Trim Model Must Be Assessed Points!!!
Somehow after 4 years of NASA TT racing I had missed this little note on the classification form about "factory options". This means that the following factory installed but optional bits on my 2011 GT will be assessed "points" for NASA classing - even if they are just cosmetic changes.


Left: The optional Brembo brakes are +2 points. Right: This front grill insert is is +3 points

Factory installed options, not on the "base trim level model", that will now count for mod points
  • Rear wing delete = +4
  • The optional 4-pedestal factory GT rear wing = +4
  • A 71" wide multi-piece CF wing with a huge cord, up to 8" above the hoodline, and 12" tall end plates = also +4?!
  • Brembo brake package = +2
  • GT500 rear valance (now optional on all GTs) = +1 (planned)
  • CS/GT front lower grill insert (now optional on all GTs) = +3 (planned)
  • Boss302 LS front splitter = +6 (with the CS grill insert included)

Left: This is the base GT rear "wing". Zero points. Right: Ordering without that is +4!

Here's our current list of what I consider "real modifications:
  • 265/40/18 Yokohama AD08 = +2 (for 140-200 treadwear)
  • AST 4100s = +3
  • Coilover Springs = +2
  • Camber plates = +0
But we have many more mods planned, which was pushing us to the limit of TTB. Now add in the cosmetic changes we had planned and we're going to be well into TTA. This new twist is pretty crazy, and I'm pretty disgusted with the NASA TT rules at the moment, but that's the way it is written. Now every time I hear a NASA racer make fun of the SCCA's thick rulebook, I can point out how retarded it is that a factory optional wing delete counts the same number of points as a massive CF race wing.

All of these planned mods are legal for STX class, plus many more - and that class is essentially the slowest of all Street Touring classes (ie: STX cars still get beat by '89 civics with 100 hp). Doing some basic shocks + springs + these "factory option" mods above would kick the car up into TTA... which is home to C5 Z06 Corvettes on Hoosiers, and highly modified cars like supercharged Miatas with giant aero, at least here in Texas. So now at least we know all we need to account for to stay within TTB, right? Oh no, there's more.

There's the set power-to-weight ratio limit for TTB that we have to stay under
  • Minimum Competition Weight for 2011 Mustang GT: 3770lbs with driver
  • Tested Wheel Horsepower: 367 whp (corrected) It tested 378 uncorrected, but that doesn't matter. It was a chilly day.
  • TTB Min Weight/Power Ratio: 10.25 lbs/hp

The Mustang currently weighs 3563 lbs, with zero fuel. Add +200 pounds for me and +50 pounds for fuel, and its around 3813 lbs. That gives me 372 whp before it would have to go up to TTA. Are we done yet? Nope.

Then there's the adjustment factors... see Appendix C (page 52-54)
  • For running a smaller tire 275-250 mm DOT = +.4
  • For having a competition weight 3800-3899 lbs = +.65
  • Total adjustments = -1.05 (they show + when they mean -, but their example calculations show it correctly)
  • 10.25 lbs/hp - 1.05 = 9.2 adjusted lbs/hp ratio.
  • At 3813 lbs / 9.2 = 414 whp max for TTB for this car

And I assure you, someone will contend something in all of those calculations and rule interpretations in this post. "Its so easy" that it takes spreadsheets and multiple interpretations of rules to even class a car in TT. So now I see why the SCCA ruleset is made by a committee and is very carefully worded. There's less room for interpretation and the try to close these odd loopholes where a giant wind tunnel tested wing counts the same as a stock rear spoiler, or no wing at all. I have a new respect for the SEB today, after seeing this mess. You won't hear me singing their praises often, either.

So we've got some thinking to do. Every single mod we have planned has to be assessed for STX legality, NASA TT points, and if anything lowers the weight or ups the horsepower at all, we have to re-check the power to weight ratios. We know its unlikely that the 3800 pound race weight RWD Mustang is going to burn up the STX class, but TTA? We'd get killed on little 265mm street tires against typical TTA cars. Sure, going to TTA would give us another +19 in mods before we'd kick up to TTS, so we could go to a wider wheel and tire package, like go to giant Hooisers, just for TT use. Two sets of race wheels/tires, one of which is a gumball Hoo$iers? Then we could run a "Real Wing" for NASA and different aero bits for STX. And on and on...

The slippery slope begins. Fun, fun!



I was talking with Stuart from AST-USA today, who has an '06 GT (above, left), and his car starts at TTD** (as does Kent's shown above, right) so he could do a HUGE amount of suspension/wheel/Hoosiers/aero mods to his '06 and still stay in TTC class, whereas I've got to be really careful or my car bumps into TTA - even on street tires. So check your base classing, read the rules, and have the TT director check your classing form. And still, just be ready to have someone to contest it. One of our customers had a car that set some TT track records... never had a competitor protest, until a NASA director saw it and assessed something like +12 points to the front bumper, which was an aftermarket but purely cosmetic piece. All of his records and results were expunged. So sometimes, you never know where you should be classed with NASA.

Sorry to piss and moan so much in this "update", I'm just really frustrated with the TT rules and classing at the moment. I'm seriously looking at other cars to run in TT this year, like the E30 V8 or the E36 M3. The '11 Mustang GT is pretty much boned beyond what we've done now, and this is hardly the final set of mods we had planned for the car.

Cheers,

Last edited by Fair!; 01-24-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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