Vorshlag/AST EVO X - Project / Deveopment Thread

[hancheyb]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Project Update for May 11th, 2009: Another update on the Evo. We joined the North Texas Evo Club for a HPDE / test day at Harris Hill Road (in San Marcos, TX) on Friday.


Vorshlag EVO X MR sporting the new Yokohama ADVAN stickers

Nothing like a 20 hour day to start your weekend. We were up at 4AM and got home at midnight. But I can say it was well worth it! Nothing like spending the day at a great track, great friends, and a great car.


The wheels stayed this clean for about.... one lap

The track day didn't start till 1PM, but we were able to pay extra to do some lapping in the morning (both Hanchey and Fair driving the EVO). We had not run at HHR with the new spring rates, new AD07s or AST 5200s. Of course the track conditions are not identical, but if you're down there, why not? We started out re-familiarizing ourselves with the track then we made some swaybar changes and some shock setting changes. When we were here in March the car had a considerable push. Most of this was gone, but not all of it, unfortunately. HHR has some challenging off-camber turns that don't help, but we kept changing the rear bar to try and help the situation. The front bar needed to be softened but the schedule didn't allow for changing it. The rear bar takes 5 minutes to change; The front you really have to jack up both sides and remove a wheel to do it.


Fully loaded in a corner, making right at 1.25g lateral grip. As you can see the -4° static front camber setting is perfect when loaded

The car did drop a second or so in lap times going from high 1:30s to high 1:29s. It is hard to take data from the same car running one day with temps in the lower 70°F range to another day where its 100°F outside on street tires and get a good comparison. The full thread Yoks were extremely hot after only a few laps (too hot to touch).


The downhill Turn 5 is a total blast!

Good news though, the Dual Clutch Semi Automatic transmission never overheated, even with the high temperatures and two drivers beating on the Evo all day. Bad news, though, Terry DID overheat. He got sent to the nurse's station. Note to Terry, Diet Coke does NOT replenish fluids. Looks like we'll need to put a Spal fan on his head or something. It IS only May after all.


People drinking water were smart - Fair wishes he had done the same!

Overall the day was really fun. We both instructed students and ran in the instructor's group. This pretty much left zero time in the afternoon to play with the car, as we'd hop from car to car after each run group ended. We did get to try out our new datatoys.com Sony 580 line bullet camera connected to our Aiptek A-HD video camera. We had an external microphone as well and spent each session trying to find a place to hide the mic from wind noise. We didn't have foam to cover it up but next time we will, because no place is safe from wind noise in the Evo.


Sean Goodpasture was flying in his EVO X GSR

Towards the end of the day I was frantically making changes trying to eek out that last bit of precious test time. The car had a push on corner exit that you'll see in the video. I kept adding rear compression towards the end of the day and it finally worked! The last runs I made you'd hear the tires squealing in mid corner and as soon as you touched the gas the car would launch out of corners. Of course, I didn't get those faster laps on video or data logged, but the feel was dramatically different. Ugh.


Ian Peebles was quick in his RX8 on Toyo R888s, and instructed throughout the day

We were a bit rushed getting the car ready for this event in the week leading up to it. It really needs another alignment, the ride height reset and the corner heights and cross weights re-balanced. I replaced the rear spring perches with longer ones the day before we left and was not able to re-adjust the height at the rear. I think it shows because you can see in the video that it doesn't pull as many g's in left handers as right (2nd video). We were seeing 1.25g lateral.


The Turn 4 & 5 up/downhill complex is a signature of Harris Hill Road's beautiful course

Here's a sample of the new camera + trackvision software (we just purchased this today) + DL1 data overlaid. You'll notice the ~1:30 lap time. This was late in the day with over 100°F air temps. We were both going faster in the morning.

In Car Video


In Car Video with TrackVision overlay:


Next up we're going to try Race Technology's new Dash 3 display + out DL-1 in the Evo. This will give us lap time readouts real time, as we're driving, which will help with testing. Instead of having to come in to look at the data, we can made decisions more quickly. Also, since Time Trial is about the fastest lap this will help us to see if we're going faster or just wasting tires and equipment. Yes, these lap time display units have been out for a while, but there hasn't been a good one to use with the DL-1 untill now. The DL-1 can also take OBDII data and record it and/or display it on the Dash 3 in real time. Should be nice to see all this.


There were a minimum of "offs" - everyone kept it clean and safe

Here are all of the pictures: http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/8178120_W5ZoX

(pictures and editing added by Fair)

[John in Houston]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Man... poor Brian looks dejected. Sux.

[Fair!]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Project Update for May 6th, 2009: A set of Yokohama's new ADVAN "AD08" arrived last week. These are to be our STU class autocross tires.



After putting the call out on EVO M forums we got a good lead on some wheels... from local racer and Vorshlag Tester Mark Berry's FPrepared EVO. These are his old BSP wheels. CCW 3-piece 18x10" with 6.75" backspacing. After verifying that our 18x10.5" wheels that fit the car now also have a 6.75" backspacing, we picked these up last Saturday. I went to have the tires mounted (in a horrendous storm, with Tornado sirens blaring - I couldn't wait!) and came back to the shop to clean up the tire mounting goo.



The 245's fit a lot better on the 10" wide wheels than we thought. Its nearly perfect. I'm glad we found this set of wheels in the perfect size and in such perfect shape - Mark keeps his stuff super clean.



These tires have 9.6" of tread when mounted. As usual, Yokohamas "run wide" for their stated size and we don't mind one bit. We would recommend at least a 9.5" wide wheel for this tire, for optimal use.



So we roll the EVO up on Sunday to test fit the wheels....



...and the big ass rotors and calipers are too close to the inner rim half on the fronts. CCW uses the same centers for 17" and 18" wheels and it makes caliper clearance a bit tight on cars like these, with nearly 14" diameter rotors and gargantuan calipers. OK, so we have spacers from ROBISPEC on the way and 3" long ARP wheel studs have already arrived. We should have everything here by this weekend, hopefully in time for our Harris Hill Road testing on Friday morning in San Marcos. If not we'll test with only the 265mm AD07s, which is our track tire for this car anyway. Just wanted to do some back-to-back AD07 vs AD08 tests this week, oh well.

Long term fix: RacingBrake 6-piston calipers up front. These should lose some unsprung weight up front, increase braking performance, and allow for more wheel clearance with the CCWs. We hope.

[hancheyb]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

I think if you went the BSP route you would end up in TTS rather than TTA due to power mods.

If we kept the car "as is" but only ran the boost map it wouldn't move. Plus we'd have to run street tires.

[rp1]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Well... we could just "slap on some Hoosiers" and go BSP racing, but I suspect we'd have to get more serious into the Prep limits to be competitive with the hot EVOs at Nationals that are all hundreds of pounds lighter.

To keep up with these guys (that regularly match or beat the "faster" ASP at Nats) we would probably need to run a LOT more boost, race fuel, ditch the cat, and re-route the intercooler with bigger piping (and even a bigger intercooler). Bigger blow-off valve, fuel injectors, possibly a custom intake manifold, bigger throttle body, etc. There are just a lot more areas to explore in BSP that can make it more radical...

By the singing of your praises for the EVO X, I wasn't sure if it had a distinct advantage that would give it some "street leeway" in terms of preparation. Sounds like that's a NO. Never the less, great information!

[Paul]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

I think if you went the BSP route you would end up in TTS rather than TTA due to power mods.

[Fair!]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Does the limit of street-ability incur with the performance to be competitive in BSP? By the sound of it, this car is already a jack of all trades. What modifications would move it away from street-able to be competitive in BSP?

As usual, a super write-up! I look forward to hearing back from the Vorshlag TNT...

Well... we could just "slap on some Hoosiers" and go BSP racing, but I suspect we'd have to get more serious into the Prep limits to be competitive with the hot EVOs at Nationals that are all hundreds of pounds lighter.

To keep up with these guys (that regularly match or beat the "faster" ASP at Nats) we would probably need to run a LOT more boost, race fuel, ditch the cat, and re-route the intercooler with bigger piping (and even a bigger intercooler). Bigger blow-off valve, fuel injectors, possibly a custom intake manifold, bigger throttle body, etc. There are just a lot more areas to explore in BSP that can make it more radical...

[hancheyb]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Does the limit of street-ability incur with the performance to be competitive in BSP? By the sound of it, this car is already a jack of all trades. What modifications would move it away from street-able to be competitive in BSP?

As usual, a super write-up! I look forward to hearing back from the Vorshlag TNT...

I'm with you. The only difference in what we'd probably do is slap R compounds on for autocrossing. We trailer it most of the time anyway so what difference does it make what tires are on it. heheh

NASA TT rules are open for boost and you get dinged regardless of if you admit to having it or not. So really the car becomes closer rule prep-wise if we ran BSP and TTA.

[rp1]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Brian and I wouldn't mind running 285mm Hoosiers on this thing and moving to BSP for good, but that doesn't really fit with the original multi-purpose street/track/autocross plan for this car, as full-tilt Street Prepared prep does push a car a bit beyond the streetable daily driver (unlimited boost, unlimited EFI/intake, no emissions). I hope we're not too disappointed with the grip from the 245mm ST tires when we get them on here.

Does the limit of street-ability incur with the performance to be competitive in BSP? By the sound of it, this car is already a jack of all trades. What modifications would move it away from street-able to be competitive in BSP?

As usual, a super write-up! I look forward to hearing back from the Vorshlag TNT...

[Fair!]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Project Update for April 20th, 2009: Lots of little updates for the EVO lately, even though we've been working mostly on final assembly of the new 550hp LS2 motor for our BMW E36.

We added some new shocks last week - Brian installed inverted AST 5200s last Thursday - and we added our first bit of bling (headlight covers). We also got a replacement 265mm AD07 tire for the one that blew out the day before the Houston Tour (the last remnants of tread on the "old" 265 we had thrown on for that event were literally crumbling!)


XPEL yellow headlight covers. Hopefully the distinctive yellow lighting will help clear away traffic at TT events


L: remote reservoirs are temporarily mounted to the strut brace. R: AST 5200 front strut for EVO X

The AST 4200 shocks came off, were cleaned up, and immediately shipped out to Edmunds.com for use on their EVO X GSR track car project, in which they hope to beat a Nissan GTR on track. They've got a good, proven setup in their hands that should do just that!

After our NASA @ TWS weekend plans were rained out (that event saw "wrath of god" rains on Saturday - we made the right choice!), Amy and I decided to enter the local SCCA autocross event in the EVO (Pennington Field, April 19, 2009). And we went full boat lazy: packed up the helmets and camera gear and just drove out there on the Yokohamas. Sometimes, very rarely, I do like racing in Street Touring.

Event Picture Gallery: here







We're still (still) waiting on our next set of 245mm ST tires so we ran on the 265mm Yokohama AD07s. These are the full tread track tires Brian has been running at NASA Time Trials and other DEs, as well as what we ran at the Houston Tour. Since they are wider than the STU class max of 245mm we ran in BSP, naturally. Not exactly the hot ticket for that class but we mostly went to test the new AST 5200s, and of course to compare with the local STU times.

We got to the site, slapped on the "BSP" magnetics, and pulled into the tech line. After working first heat announcing I got the car to grid. Amy and I ran in heat 2, but she ran in the pax factored "Womens" class (lets her run one class but jump around in cars all year if she wants) but I ran in BSP. I was running in the "X" Pro class, which is also Pax factored, but was getting killed by all of the National Champions in Mod cars that run this class (which tend to do VERY well on the ~30 second/smallish courses our region favors at some sites). Running BSP also gave me a slightly better chance at winning $50 per event from Don Herring Mitsubishi (this local dealership pays $50 per class win and $500 for an annual class win in any Mitsubishi), too.

So first run Amy had some trouble remembering the course and DNF'd in a very tight offset at the finish. Checked tire pressures (32F/30R) and I made a run with a passenger. STU had run in heat one and finished with a 36.7 as the fastest run. My first run, with some herky jerkiness at the rear, was a 35.6 so I was off to a good start. The shock settings were a total guess with this new 5200 set-up, so I dropped compression in front & rebound in rear and it settled down a good bit out back. I managed to clock off 4 clean runs with my fastest on my 3rd being a 35.2 (video shown below).


on-car video from my 3rd run. The vidcam roof mount is still terrible - its the mount shaking, not the car

The car felt incredible - immediate turn-in, super crisp transitions, great mid-corner grip, staggering stopping power, and incredible corner exit acceleration. The SST trans was working its magic in S-Sport mode again, performing perfect 1st-2nd-3rd upshifts coming out of each tight turn around. There was a point right after the start where the speeds dictated an upshift mid corner from 1st to 2nd - which was seamless, didn't unsettle the car, and forward acceleration never ceased. This transmission is the hottest thing since sliced bread.

Amy had some minor driving troubles - a first run DNF, 2 coned runs, and she caught her hand in the paddle shifter on her 4th run causing some sideways antics - and finished the day uncharacteristically off pace. She's usually right there with me, or beating my times.

Results: http://www.autocross.com/tr/modules/...ndex.php?id=81

My 3rd and 4th runs felt great but we're still lacking about 1/2 second of performance for STU. Using the STU pax I was only 9th out of 145 cars, and that's not nearly good enough. Using the BSP pax I was way down in 27th, yuck. The 245mm tires will change things, but we suspect these full tread 265mm AD07s won't be any better than modern ST rubber in 245mm and shaved under 5/32". We have got to get the final STU wheels and tires in our hands soon to get some much needed testing underway - its pretty damn late in the season to be picking tires, but some of the new ones we want to test still aren't out yet in the sizes we need.

So up next we have the following potential upgrades:

• The latest and greatest in ST approved 245mm tires (Toyo, Bridgestone, or Yokohama - we don't know yet)
• Lighter 18x9.5" wheels
• Sparco harness bar and 6 point harness
• Lighter fixed back racing seats
• Possibly a set of lighter front brakes
• Much more setup testing at an upcoming Vorshlag Test-N-Tune practice event

Brian and I wouldn't mind running 285mm Hoosiers on this thing and moving to BSP for good, but that doesn't really fit with the original multi-purpose street/track/autocross plan for this car, as full-tilt Street Prepared prep does push a car a bit beyond the streetable daily driver (unlimited boost, unlimited EFI/intake, no emissions). I hope we're not too disappointed with the grip from the 245mm ST tires when we get them on here.

[rp1]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

One of the best Vorshlag threads yet! I look forward to following the progress on this car and hearing more about how the AD08s fair. I'm co-driving with Brian's STX 328is so I'm eager to see those Yokos out ASAP too!

[hancheyb]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

+1

I need some 255/40-17 AD08s for my STX car

Sorry to hear about the Houston experience, but it is good to see that the car has potential in STU. Too bad you can't run wider tires in STU like the RWD cars.

-Brian

It won't matter. We ran on 3 good AD07s and a trashed tire. I think the times will stand with narrower AD08s. We'll soon see.

TireRack will be the first to have AD08s listed.

[BrianGT]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Who is your AD08 source?

+1

I need some 255/40-17 AD08s for my STX car

Sorry to hear about the Houston experience, but it is good to see that the car has potential in STU. Too bad you can't run wider tires in STU like the RWD cars.

-Brian

[GotCone?]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

WOW, long weekend it sounds like. Anxious to see how your EVO stacks up this year. Any plans to be at LAP prior to nationals?

Who is your AD08 source?

Thanks - Jon

[hancheyb]

Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Project Update for April 6th, 2009: What a weekend or maybe an entire week. We had plans to go to the Houston SCCA National Tour and participate in the STU class. That all started going "haywire" a week earlier.

We had originally hoped to run the new Yokohama AD08 at the event only to find out at the last minute that wouldn't be possible, but we'd have the tires "next week"....*just* not in time for the Tour. So, we really didn't see the point in buying another set of tires at $1000 for one event, surely our old Dunlops could make one last run right? Surely the well setup Evo could muster a competitive placement even on old tires right?



At the last minute we decided to go ahead and install a Cobb downpipe and cat "test" pipe. On Thursday I headed over to Cobb Plano to get our STU and TT maps updated before leaving at 4AM Friday for Houston. I'm driving down there when all of the sudden, out of nowhere comes a heavy duty tie down (think bulldozer "come along") into view as I change lanes to exit. The giant BANG and almost immediate left tug of the wheel told me that this was "not good". I pulled on the shoulder to find the sidewall cut into shreds and our new Enkei wheel with a gash in it. Luckily Fair was following me, but of course, we had put 17mm lug nuts and the factory was 21mm. After going to Stett Performance to borrow a socket we had the spare on. Fair drove to the shop, picked up the Dunlops and drove back to Cobb since you can't really dyno on a spare. While out, he mounted a 3 year old Advan AD07 (matching brand/size as the other three tires from our NASA TT setup, except bald and MUCH older) on the Enkei as a "back up" for the Tour, and to run at the Friday practice. This was a tire our friend and former STU competitor Mike Simanyi threw away and sent to us for fitment testing. Basically it was junk. But we wouldn't need it right? I mean we couldn't even drive on the street with it since it was below the tread bars and the others were new, with the AWD you know.

Tuning wrapped up, we loaded the car with the Enkeis on it to practice Friday since the Dunlops were already beyond their usable life. Remember the Enkeis have 265 tires on them, not legal for STU. So the trip down was without incident. We had a trailer tire blowout a week ago so we bought 4 new ones. It was an expensive week. More on this later.



We started the practice on the Advans with the bad Mike Simanyi tire on the left front. I helped Paul Magyar with his STI's setup while Terry and Amy drove the Evo. I drove the Evo and it didn't feel right to me, but obviously pushed with the "bad" AD07 on the front. Still the car was faster than other guys practicing by 0.5s on a 30s course. We went to lunch, came back and mounted the Dunlops. Terry's first run was 0.75s slower than the AD07s. That was a shocker. Well, we weren't going to come all that way to come in last in STU just because we had a last minute snafu on tires. Buying another set at 3PM on Friday having zero testing on Bridgestones or Toyos didn't make sense. We still want to try the Yoks when they are out. We decided to "punt" and sign up for BSP on the 265s. Since the car pushed a little we decided to put the bad tire on the back and we called it a night. Certainly disappointed. We didn't bring a BSP car to the event after all.



Saturday morning we're ready to go. BSP was in the same run group as STU so at least we could compare times with STU drivers. Terry makes his first run and the car is terrible, unlike any time we've ever run it. It oversteers like it is on ice. I'm not much better wagging the tail out everywhere and taking cones or just DNFs since I was so off track. Terry actually puts a mid 60.6 run down with plenty of drifting, but hits the last cone on course. The fastest STU driver was a 61.6. OK, so even with the poor handling the car is "in the hunt". We're disappointed, but hey, the car is capable.



Amy runs after us in Heat 2, Grid B. We drive the car over after asking our competitors if they care. They didn't so we leave. More on this later. Amy takes one run and says the car is undriveable. We knew this already, but we were hoping she'd be OK. We decide to swap the bad tire back to the front. Amy makes her second run and drops 2 seconds, getting a clean 61.1 - BEATING the boys in STU Open. Now, most will argue the course was cleaner, conditions were better, etc. Anything NOT to let a Ladies class driver beat them. BTW, she did the same at Nationals one year. Gulf Greyhound Park actually gets WORSE as the day goes on. It comes apart and makes so much gravel there becomes one line and if you deviate you're in the marbles and its all over. So we leave Saturday excited that the car seems to be better even if we're basically on 3 tires, obviously slightly bigger tires with a junk tire. The course was reversed Sunday so we swapped the bad one to the right for the Sunday runs. There were really only two left hand turns so we picked the lesser of two evils.



We start Sunday with Terry's first run. Terry pulls out a 57.2. Most STU cars at this point were in the 59s and high 58s all dirty. Terry had a cone as well. I get in and run a clean 57.5. The best STU car is a 58.0 from Wiggy in an Evo RS. A great run no doubt. Good enough to move him into first place. Terry never could get clean and both of us slowed after this first fast run. We were within 0.5s of it though. Looking at the data the lateral acceleration numbers decreased on every run. We were spraying the tires, but I think the dead AD07 was just getting worse and worse. No biggie, the car is proving it's potential besting STU by 0.5s each day even if not by the same driver.

We move the car as we did the day before to let Amy run. Unfortunately the tires were getting worse and worse. Her lateral numbers were going down. She eeked out a 58.5. Her combined times would have given her 2nd place in STU Open. Her last run looked great but was 2 seconds slower! Again, looking at the data, the car just got worse and worse. We end the day excited. The car is a blast to drive on the track and at the autocross. With the new cat it sounds so mean when it shifts. We love it!



Vorshlag drivers in other classes did great too. Gerry T won E Stock with AST 4100s by 3 seconds, ASTs were on a C6 ZO6 that got 3rd behind nationals level drivers. 0.5s out of first. This was his second event on shocks! The ST Civic we help with won overall, Matt Lucas too, and many other strong finishes. Our STU drivers had some cone troubles but had good raw times. Roger Johnson courses are evil, I'll leave it at that. Can't forget Stuart Maxcy and his A Stock win. This AST 5200s will be on the car in a few weeks!



We pack things up during a break, complete our work assignment then head for Dallas at about 2PM. I check the results from the car and we were DSQ'd today? What the heck? Since we were so far back, we never checked the times. We call Gerry Terranova who checks for us. Apparently we didn't "dot our I's" when we moved the car for Amy's runs and the Impound Chief got us DSQ'd. We were standing 50 yards from the grid. Why didn't anyone ASK us why we moved or where we were? Oh, no, just DSQ them even though the car stayed in grid. For the record, we're aware of the rule of not leaving grid and would never do so, but we also had to get a car ready for the next driver. This happens all the time at Nationals where you have to DRIVE distances to other spots not even staying in the same area. We were just baffled at a Tour that someone would assume the worst. Whatever, we're calling today to argue the case and frankly discuss other concerns we had at the event.

We get into the heart of South Houston (a lovely place btw) and I hear a strange noise from the trailer. Terry looks back and smoke is bellowing out from the passenger side fender. Great! A blowout on a new tire? Amy as calm and collected as she always is pulls off the highway into a Bail Bonds parking lot. You get the picture where we are? Terry and I inspect the trailer to find the leaf spring broken (and missing parts) on the rear axle. The tire was lodged in the fender which made for the smoke. We call in the soldiers.



Before you know it, we have an army of people surrounding us which is good in this part of town. Jason McCall, Paul Magyar, Matt Lucas, Chris Ledbetter, Kurt Janish (Mr. Tools), Greg Piper show up along with Gerry Terranova. It was a party in South H! Terry and Jason run to Northern Tools and buy a leaf spring and new hardware. Kurt, me and everyone else work at breaking all the rusted bolts off. We broke one bolt so Terry and Gerry had to run back to the store. We had everything ready to go once they got back and we were off again. Only a two hour delay. Thanks again for everyone and their help. I wasn't too excited about leaving the Evo to go get parts. It definitely would have been missing wheels at a minimum.

We made it back in one piece around 10PM, a LONG weekend for sure. While we didn't get to compete in STU we're pretty happy with the car. It really handles well. I can't wait to see what it does with four equal, current generation ST tires. Should be interesting!