ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

[Paul]

14.2. BODY WORK

E. Fenders may not be cut or flared but the inside lip may be rolled
to gain additional tire clearance. Flares that are part of body kits
may be attached to the stock fenders. The intention is to permit
fitting the maximum allowable tire size. No other changes to the
stock fenders or wheel wells are permitted. Wear marks on
inside surfaces of the fender well from tire rub are permitted.
However, wear holes or slots completely through a fender well
surface (which, in effect, provide additional tire clearance) are
not permitted.

F. Addition of spoilers, splitters, body kits, rear wings and nonfunctional
scoops/vents is allowed. The intent of this allowance
is to accommodate commonly available appearance kits, and
replicas thereof, which have no significant aerodynamic function
at Solo speeds. Body kits are limited to bumper covers, valances,
side skirts, and fender flares. Standard parts may not be
removed except for the substitution of spoilers, rear wings,
bumper covers and valances. Rear wings must attach only aft of
the rear wheel centerline. Total surface area of all spoilers, splitters
and rear wing may not exceed 8 square feet as seen from
above (see 12.9). Substitution of rear spoilers or wings must
retain any original third brake light functionality unless otherwise
equipped. No underbody panels may be added or substituted.
The drilling of holes for the purpose of mounting these
pieces is permitted.

Seems to me that these two rules give you a mod and then take it away. You can have fender flares but you can't flare your fenders. Sounds like a George Carlin joke, you can prick your finger but don't finger your prick.

[Fair!]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

Its rollin time.

[John in Houston]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

Any update on that letter / clarification? If you saved a copy, e-mail it to me and I'll send it in a couple of times as well

[Teucci]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

Fair talked to someone about doing a clarification letter.

Good luck with that.. myself and a few others wrote in letters for clairification on the E36 sunroof change that I did in DSP. I wrote in 2 letters and spoke to Doug Gill on the phone.

I'm still waiting.

Your best bet is to to file a protest against Fair and have the protest commitee at the event rule as a DSQ then have Fair appeal to the SEB.

Talk to Andy Hollis. He can help you expedite the process.

[hancheyb]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

Although I agree with Brian's interpretation of the rules as I said on BF.

I DO think we need a true protest at an NT to happen. Getting a ruling prior to nationals rather than at nationals IMHO is the way to go.

Jon

Fair talked to someone about doing a clarification letter.

[GotCone?]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

Although I agree with Brian's interpretation of the rules as I said on BF.

I DO think we need a true protest at an NT to happen. Getting a ruling prior to nationals rather than at nationals IMHO is the way to go.

Jon

[John in Houston]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

If they wanted to limit the amount of 'rolling' you could do, then why did they add this: The intention is to permit fitting the maximum allowable tire size. ?

If they had just left it at "Fenders may not be cut or flared but the inside lip may be rolled to gain additional tire clearance", then I would agree with you. But they didn't... so I don't



E. Fenders may not be cut or flared but the inside lip may be rolled
to gain additional tire clearance. Flares that are part of body kits
may be attached to the stock fenders. The intention is to permit
fitting the maximum allowable tire size. No other changes to the
stock fenders or wheel wells are permitted. Wear marks on
inside surfaces of the fender well from tire rub are permitted.
However, wear holes or slots completely through a fender well
surface (which, in effect, provide additional tire clearance) are
not permitted.

[Fair!]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

I told Fair I wanted to wait till Nationals to get protested. That would mean we were winning and frankly the hype around it would be great. I still think the whole thing is silly. Even if we're wrong, we're not, but if proven otherwise, we aren't even running a 275mm tire, the max width. The intention is to permit fitting the maximum allowable tire size.

+1 for common sense.

We're getting a lot of support/hate on bimmerforums and sccaforums.

This fender rolling "interpretaiton" only effects the BMW, as the STEVOs and RX8 can fit the class maximum tires with ease and zero fender rolling. So the fender rolling allowance MUST BE FOR THE BMWS.

But the SEB & STAC hate BMWs. Its a proven fact.

[Dean!]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

Wear marks on
inside surfaces of the fender well from tire rub are permitted.
However, wear holes or slots completely through a fender well
surface (which, in effect, provide additional tire clearance) are
not permitted.

Now the wear holes, that's a little silly if they are wear holes and not cut or slotted holes, because my 98 Formula would fail that test and my B4C with Gutierrez's 16x9.5 wheels would fail that because they rubbed holes through the plastic fender liner.

Actually the top of my 04 STi's fender well and I think Jeremy's 03 Evo also had wear marks at the top of the fender well lining plastic - not on purpose - just because we autocrossed the p1ss outta them....

Is a fender well lining considered a fender well surface ?

[Dean!]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

I think it is pretty clear to me, too... would hate to see VOMO give up a trophy at Nationals just trying to prove a point.

Like Fitz interprets too - it says you can't flare the fender at all.

You can push the inside lip to be flush with the fender, as long as you don't flare it. The junkyard fender thing wouldn't work since you'd be flaring it, not adjusting the inside lip.

Then it says you take a stock fender and PUT a body kit on it, so the stock fender in the spirit of the rules is not flared, but you can put a bodykit flare on top of the stock fender.

Then if you decide to go to Nationals and you are not running the maximum tire width AND you flare your fenders, then I would think you are purposely not in the spirit of the rules since you have no reason to flare your fenders since you "are not intent to even run the maximum tire width" - you're just flaring the fenders to flare them.

Keep your trophies with no protest shenanigans!!!

[hancheyb]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

What if you just found one old junkyard front fender, rolled/pulled the crap out of it, and used it temporarily for that weekend for protest purposes?

I told Fair I wanted to wait till Nationals to get protested. That would mean we were winning and frankly the hype around it would be great. I still think the whole thing is silly. Even if we're wrong, we're not, but if proven otherwise, we aren't even running a 275mm tire, the max width. The intention is to permit fitting the maximum allowable tire size.

[bfitz]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

I think it's clear. You can roll the "inside lip", not the "fender".

Brian

[C3]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

However, I'd sure hate to do that, get ruled against and then have to try and get my fenders back into shape.

Thoughts?

What if you just found one old junkyard front fender, rolled/pulled the crap out of it, and used it temporarily for that weekend for protest purposes?

[hancheyb]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

There's no such thing as bad publicity.

Anyway, I checked just now with a friend that runs a body shop. He said they are not furnished any specs on fenders for repair. They just "look at the other side" and match it. He suspected that if a fender is bent and a BMW dealer is doing the repair, they'd just replace it. Therefore, they might not have a spec. Of course this is all speculation so I'll check with some higher powers.

[John in Houston]

Re: ST* fender rolling / flaring rules

With the coming of VSM's 18x10 wheels, I think the STU community should bond and have a self-imposed protest at one of the national tour events. Have someone protest an M3 driver for the 'rolling of the fenders to fit the max allowed tire width'. This will force the SCCA to rule on it and/ or result in clarification of the rules.

As it stands now, I think you could roll the fenders with a piece of 14" caison and make plenty of room while still being within the spirit of the rule. However, I'd sure hate to do that, get ruled against and then have to try and get my fenders back into shape.

Thoughts?