Go Back   Vorshlag Motorsports Forum > Vorshlag Motorsports Discussions > Vorshlag Project Cars

Reply
Thread Tools
  #101  
Unread 11-26-2011, 05:01 PM
John in Houston's Avatar
John in Houston John in Houston is offline
Mega Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Parker, Colorado
Posts: 1,570
Send a message via Yahoo to John in Houston
Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Flat Black for moi
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Unread 12-09-2011, 11:21 AM
Fair!'s Avatar
Fair! Fair! is offline
I blame the internet
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,998
Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Project Update for Dec 9, 2011: There's an ECR track day this Saturday (ECR Toy Run) and AJ and Ryan have been wrenching this week on both our 2001 BMW 330 and the 2011 Mustang, to take these two cars out for one last blast around the track for the year. The BMW hasn't been on track or autocrossed in over a year, but its been running around with its fresh 2005 motor for a couple of months and and we've finally found all of the clunks and bangs and repaired them (the ball joints in fairly new front control arms had already sh!t the bed! Lesson learned: don't buy cheap, no-name replacement parts).



Before we got started on the exhaust, I had AJ swap the race seats back in, then align, corner weigh and corner balance the Mustang. The weights were looking good - this was before the exhaust work lined out below. The weight above (3483) was with the trunk junk still installed; it was 3472 lbs with low fuel (autocross weight) and the junk out, so it is slowly getting lower. Not too terrible for this big pig - the car started out life at 3563 lbs w/o fuel, and we've seen over 3600 lbs stock, with some gas in the tank. The 18x10's and the 275/40/18 tires are a bit heavier than the normal 18x9/265 tires we run, so knock off another 40 pounds out for the "STX" autocross weight. And we're going to get some weight out of the exhaust, today...



The Mustang is getting a new, 304SS, 3" mandrel bent, "after-X" exhaust here at Vorshlag today. It has been running around with the ARH 1-7/8" primary full length headers, the ARH catted X-pipe, but the stock rear exhaust section from just after the X. The drive-by sound test numbers didn't go up at all with the headers, which meant the stock mufflers were choking the the exhaust noise and flow down considerably. The stock mufflers looked heavy, too, and the over-axle section and resonators are "factory crushed" with crazy crimps and "clearance" bends. Its been bugging me for months, and we finally found time to attack the Mustang after our fabricator finished with McCall's Z3M dual 3" exhaust (which is incredible). Did I mention that Vorshlag is offering custom mandrel bent exhaust fabrication now?



I was right about the Mustang's stock mufflers - they are 25 pounds each! The after-X exhaust section with mufflers was 75 pounds just by itself. Factory exhausts are ALWAYS crazy heavy, and restrictive, and too quiet. We'll fix that!



While Ryan was TIG welding up the exhaust AJ was swapping to the dedicated set of track rotors and pads, plus giving the car a brake fluid flush.



This is the final routing, above. It gets within 2 inches of a fuel filler line so we wrapped that part of the exhaust with header wrap, just to be extra safe (there was zero issue with it after 2 drivers tracked it all day). To see how much weight the new dual 3" exhaust shed, we did a quick scale check as it came down - 3442 lbs. So it lost exactly 30 more pounds just in the rear exhaust. Most of that was in the mufflers, but some was in the larger diameter 16 gauge pipes, too.



After we got home that night, before we went out to grab some dinner in the Mustang, I shot a little video (below) of Amy in the Mustang starting it up, idling, and a little blip of the throttle. It sounds pretty subdued at idle and cruising around, but at WOT it is definitely "easier to hear the engine" now.



click for video of exhaust test


Next week we'll take the Mustang back to True Street and have it re-dyno tuned, and finally get the damned "street" tune, that takes out our weaker "autocross" throttle mapping. I will do another thread update after the dyno runs, with a report of how the track event went (Mustang was great!), what times it at ECR, etc.

Thanks,

Last edited by Fair!; 12-12-2011 at 08:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Unread 12-21-2011, 08:42 PM
Fair!'s Avatar
Fair! Fair! is offline
I blame the internet
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,998
Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Project Update for Dec 21, 2011: So much has been going on with my racing schedule in the past 2 weeks, sorry for the delayed update. Dec 10th I drove my 330 BMW and our 2011 Mustang GT at the ECR Toy run on the 10th, then did a 4 hour karting enduro at DKC Dec 13th, then dyno'd the Mustang on the 15th, then drove 275 miles worth of laps in a 15 hour LeMons race at ECR Dec 17-18th. And December is usually a slow month on our race schedule?!

So the pertinent bits for this thread are the dyno number and the ECR track day in the Mustang. Yes, I said I wasn't tracking the Mustang anymore, but we had sold Amy's 1997 M3 already, she wanted something to run at this event (we both run it each year), and I wanted to get one more track day in with the new AST 4150 style DDP pistons and valving we were working with AST-USA to verify. The street ride on full soft was better than ever with the new pistons/base valving, and it worked extremely well at the last 2 autocross events. If we could get one track day in, with the knobs turned up, it would be a great data point. And not to mention, ECR is very bumpy. So I broke my promise to myself - we tracked the Mustang again. And OMFG, I'm so glad we did!

Track Day in Mustang + BMW

As I already posted about in the BMW 330 project thread, the folks who run the 2.5 mile road course at Eagles Canyon Raceway always put on a good "fun" track day every December. Its only $50 + a toy + some canned goods to run, makes for great donations to local families in need, and which brings out all sorts of casual racers that want to run on track for lower costs + a few serious track guys/racers that want to squeeze in a track event at the very end of the year. I guess we fell into the latter group, but barely.

Pictures and videos are here.

ECR put on another great Toy Run event, with 90+ cars in attendance on a cold 30F wintery day. The track was mostly dry from previous rains and the weather warmed up into the mid 50s that afternoon, so we had a great time, peeling layers of clothing off as the day warmed up. The plan was to for me to primarily run sessions in the BMW 330 in Red group, logging its first track miles on the "new" 2005 M54 longblock, and its first miles driven in anger in over a year. Brought the transponder charged up, had sticker 285 R6s mounted (which we can just barely squeeze into the build for TTD use), so I planned on putting in a mild first session, coming in and checking everything. Then go out and pound out a lot of laps in it, steadily pushing the car and trying to put in a quick time.



Amy was to drive the Mustang in the same group all day, and just have fun. Towards the end of the day I was going to swap cars with her for the last session (each group had five 20 minute sessions on track scheduled), slap on the transponder, and see what the Mustang would do, too. I've driven literally hundreds of laps at ECR since my first NASA TT event there in 2008 (where I set the TTU record, and fastest TT time in the old E36 LSx Alpha car), so I knew the track and it would give us a good baseline for the Mustang. When we put the very-revised/DDP equipped/updated Moton Club Sport doubles on the Mustang (soon), we'll go back to ECR and re-test the Mustang with the same wheels/tires/power and see where we pick up time.


If you wanted to, the 275mm tires could be vaporized like this all day - in 3rd gear

The best laid plans... first of all they did not have the AMB timing system turned on, and wouldn't. It was a long shot, but I had hoped they would. So no "real" times. Damn it - should have pulled the trigger on that new on-board lap timer/data logger. Oh well, I figured I'd find someone to hand-time both cars for me towards the end of the day, when it warmed up and we'd be quicker anyway. So we both went out in Red, which was the very first session on track at 9 am, and it was frakking COLD. I warmed up the BMW's tires, trying to scrub them in, and put in about 9 trouble-free laps over 20 minutes in it. Never saw Amy in the Mustang - she was on the other side of the track each lap, running about the same times as me. The 330 felt fine, but there was some unusually SLOW traffic in this group (one of which was moved down to Blue group later, some to Yellow), so I just took it easy, shifted the motor early (5500 rpm), and just tried to scrub in the tires and not abuse the brakes. The HP+ pads on the 330 were fairly thin (the replacements we had ordered weeks before arrived the next Wednesday), so it wouldn't stop 100% for more than 1-2 lap bursts.



Got in-car video driving the BMW in this first session, but only ran a 2:07, with plenty of mistakes. Meh, not very quick, but that was already 3 seconds quicker than its previous best, which was a NASA TTD record. So it wasn't a totally wasted effort.

Came in the pits and the BMW had developed a tiny leak at the coolant reservoir. Freak thing, where the OEM bracket flexed and let the tank rub a pulley, and didn't start to leak until I was already off track, and just a trickle at that. Long story short - it went onto the trailer. Amy had a blast in the Mustang, said it was working great, so I took the 5.0 out during the next Yellow group and she stayed running in Red, so we doubled up sessions in the same car. Car didn't care... just asked for more fuel, and more abuse!



Getting into the Mustang and driving it on track for the first time in 6 months... man, I had missed THAT! And now the car had more power than at any other track sessions before (we had 100% stock dreivetrain/power mods on it before). Every track event I've done since driving the Mustang last were in LeMons cars, the BMW, or something else with a lot less than 430 whp. Driving the Mustang on track with the newly added horsepower (ARH full length headers + ARH X-pipe + cold air + Vorshlag x-back exhaust + tune) and 275mm grip on the 18x10s and new AST 4150 DDP pistons was a BLAST, even if it was on Amy's full street/daily driver set-up.



The new Vorshlag built dual 3" exhaust behind the ARH 1-7/8" full lengths sounded GOOD, and we had several drivers, spectators, and corner workers walk up and tell us that "that thing is the best sounding car on track today!", and it was. Sweet, sweet V8 sounds, but not terribly loud. The sound it made from 5000-7000 rpm... oh, it made my man parts tingle. I opened the hood in grid and a swarm of people came by to gawk at the clean, tidy engine bay. Got a lot of "That thing blew by me like I was STOPPED!" comments from Yellow group drivers.



So Amy and I kept taking it out in Red & Yellow and I led some "Lead-Follow" groups during a few Green groups as well (hazards on, about 60% pace, for to show the proper line to n00bs without freaking them out). All we needed for the car was fuel - but it averaged 11.8 mpg, running some hand timed 2:03 laps. Amy had some low 2:10s, and with a little coaching she'll find every ounce of speed I had. So yea, the Mustang on street tires was 4 seconds a lap faster than the TTD prepped BMW 330 on 285mm Hoosiers. Horsepower. 'Merca!

Current track impressions: This Mustang probably still needs some dedicated brake cooling ducts, as I could get the DTC-60 Hawk pads a little warm if I was pushing the brakes 100% for a couple of laps, but it still STOPS. Might switch to a Porterfield pad someone has put me onto. Some added aero wouldn't hurt, as it has the ample power to convert into some downforce. The car was pretty much just flawless on track, and too damned much fun. No temperature issues at all, even with 2 drivers driving it back to back to back. I could hoon it in 3rd gear in slow corners, or drive it nicer and put down some decent laps. Played with a certain hot TT driver's E92 M3 on similar tires and the Mustang came out ahead. I had it all on video, but all of the in-car from the Mustang was borked when we looked at it the next day. Gah! It was so good, with a passenger hooting and laughing the whole time.

So, I think any more power in the Mustang and it would be begging for Hoosiers... Hell, its already begging for Hoosiers. I gotta quit tracking this still too-new car. Its just so much more fun to drive than my "dedicated track car" BMW with M54 power!

New Tune + Dyno Number

So we had hoped to get the Mustang over to the local tuner shop we use for this car (True Street Motorsports in McKinney, TX) and have them put on a fresh tune for the car, now that its not 108F outside like it was last August (where it made 404 whp) + we had the new rear exhaust on (which might add a little power) + make us the "Street Tune" version we ran out of time in August for, which uses all of the throttle travel all of the time (we have had an RPM-based throttle stop / traction control built into the EFI programming for autocross use for many months).

Their shop was super busy and they couldn't squeeze us in until after the ECR Track Day, so we took the car by after the event. They pulled it in off the street and it made 426 whp on the old "traction control" track tune. Wow, that call got me excited! They fiddled around a bit and settled on 430 whp / 406 wtq, still with the limited throttle track tune (shown below). Didn't take much work. That's still a 100% STX class legal + street legal set-up, with cats, and mufflers. Too bad its still 3400 pounds and limited to 265mm tires for this class, which is far too heavy to be a threat there.


the August "hot as hell in the dyno cell" 404 whp run is shown under the more realistic but still corrected 430 whp dyno pull

This Coyote 5.0L V8 motor will RUIN you - 100% stock longblock, just a few bolt-ons and a pump gas tune, and its making 430 wheel??? It still gets great mileage, idles quietly, and pulls hard to 7000 and beyond. Its making more than 400 whp from 5200-7000 rpm. With the Boss302 intake manifold it would keep making more and more power up to 7500 (those intakes are amazing), but sadly that intake swap isn't legal in STX. But it is for ESP, if you were to build a Boss302 engined Mustang for that class. Mmmm, big grip and even more power - it sure is tempting.

So TSM made a street tune for me as well, with the "crazy throttle" mapping that comes with it from the factory. I've been driving around on that, and its definitely more "frisky". This tune makes even more power than the Track map, but I don't have that dyno print-out yet (it made an additional 11 whp before on the "street" map). I'll post that up later when I can go get a copy of it from the TSM guys.

What's Next in the Mustang?

I'll post up more about the Mustang when we make changes, over the winter. So much going on I can't even get it all down on the screen. Still have a good plan for attacking STX next year - its all about getting the power to the ground. There are some new 265mm 140+ treadwear tires I want to test, and I have major rear suspension updates planned, with some additional weight loss, and of course - more horsepower. Too much is never enough!

PS: I love driving this Mustang on track so much I'm looking for another S197 chassis to build into a dedicated track car here at Vorshlag. I'll go into more detail when/if we find a car for the right price. If you have a line on a lower cost/theft recovery/stripped/drivetrain-less S197 Mustang (2005+), please drop me a line. Just don't tell my wife! A rolling chassis with no interior or drivetrain is OK, and even front end damage is fine. The stock drivetrain, front sheetmetal, hood, trunk, glass, brakes, wheels, interior, and lower K-member are all going away. V6 or V8 cars.


Plenty of 18x10" Mustang Wheels Still Available for Pre-Order

We are still trying to get the word out about the first batch of 18x10 ET43 wheels I ordered from D-Force for the S197 Mustang and GR Impreza chassis. It has been two weeks since we made the product announcement post and started taking pre-orders. We had high expectations for these wheels and thought they'd be met by the Mustang and Subaru enthusiast community with a warmer reception, even though this batch is being sold as a pre-order and not a direct sale straight from inventory.

The reasons we thought these wheels would be more popular are:
  • This is an 18x10" size and offset that nobody else makes
  • Makes for a square set-up, front and back, which is a very good thing
  • Still a very lightweight wheel
  • $309 is a very cost competitive price compared to Enkei, SSR and others (none of which make the right offset and bolt pattern)
  • This 18x10" wheel is already both race and street proven, on hundreds of BMWs + our 2011 Mustang
  • Direct fit for both the Mustang and GR Subaru - no spacers needed, no "poke", no rubbing.

We understand that there is a somewhat unknown economic outlook right now, and in the U.S. here there is the added pressure of presidential election news craziness, but this is still a very well priced wheel for what it is. This is the first 18x10" wheel made for this car that fits and doesn't cost over $600 per corner. It is less than HALF the price of the BBS wheel, which you cannot even find in stock at most times. The prototype set has been thoroughly tested on the street, autocross course and track.



If you are reading this Mustang thread then you probably care a little about what we do here at Vorshlag. We're trying to innovate, create and make better suspension & in this case wheel products that fit the enthusiast market needs. Ordering the huge number of wheels necessary to get an 18x10" direct-fit wheel made for S197 Mustang and GR Subaru chassis (and I've been told by very reliable sources this size + offset fits the RX8 as well) was a big risk for us. Future new wheel product offerings will depend on how this experiment goes. We do not need to pre-sell all of the wheels, but we had hoped that more people would be stepping up after two weeks than we have seen.

Please, if you or anyone you know has a 2005-up Mustang or 2008-up Subaru STI, please point them to this Product Announcement: http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8008 Use your social media outlets as well - Twitter, Facebook, Google+.

We are in love with these wheels. They are so light, so big, fit these cars so well, and I want them on all of my own cars. I can just only use so many myself, you know? Or order a set for yourself - you deserve a set of proper 18x10" wheels that do not weigh 30 pounds each!

Thanks for your help.

Last edited by Faerus; 12-22-2011 at 12:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Unread 01-24-2012, 07:13 PM
Fair!'s Avatar
Fair! Fair! is offline
I blame the internet
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,998
Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Project Update for Jan 26, 2012: Well we've been getting busier back in the shop area, performing various fabrication work, repairs and upgrades on customer cars. We have managed to sneak in some work on our 2011 Mustang since the last update, which I'll cover here briefly (we've also worked on our E30 V8 and our E46 330 recently, both of which need project thread updates). Hmm, after putting it all down there's actually a lot to show in this update - I probably should have broken this up earlier into 2 posts (and on some forums where I cross-post this thread its going to be 3 or 4 segments, so keep reading).


Exhaust V 2.0

First, the custom dual 3" exhaust we built here at Vorshlag has been heavily revised. The various 3" mandrel 304SS bends we had on hand the first time did not include a 120 bend, which is very helpful when making the over-the-solid-axle routing. Now that we stock a LOT more bends we were able to route it better and have lots more clearance at full bump travel. We confirmed the routing with the springs removed and the axle at full bump travel, then added even more room. The 3" tubes are routed over and through the panhard bar and structure with space to everything surrounding them.



It is crowded under there, but Ryan made it fit great and look beautiful with ample clearance everywhere. There's so much more room to the fuel line than before that this version didn't need header wrap insulation there. You can see how the left and right tubes are asymmetric - that's due to the panhard mounting and the fuel line differences side-to-side.



The two pre-axle "slip-fit joint" clamps were removed and a pair of flanged V-band clamp joints were welded in their place. This ensures a leak-free connection at this location. Much quieter now after driving the car - we will never use a slip-fit exhaust joint in this shop again. It was a test, after other shops had said they have used them successfully, but we're not going to do it again. V-bands or nothing.



The 409 stainless steel (it is magnetic so it has to be a 400 series) Flowmaster Series 44 mufflers came new with a silver painted finish (see above left pic) - it looks like the same coating they put on their carbon steel mufflers. Well of course this burns off and makes a stinky mess. While the exhaust was off for this re-work we used some Scoth-Brite pads and paint thinner to get the rest of this silver gunk off, which left the mufflers in their natural "bronze" finish (after several weeks of use). Don't know why they bother painting them - next time we use these FM mufflers we'll remove the finish completely before putting them on a car.


Boss302 Leguna Seca Splitter

So we've been looking at this OEM piece for some time and figured, what the hell? Let's try putting one on our Mustang and do some track testing to verify if it is working (adding downforce/lowering times). We'll use the aero test procedure detailed in Neil Roberts' ThinkFAST book, of course. These LS units sell for $700-750 and "bolt on" with the CS lower valance we added (that became optional mid-2011 model year).



Well it took some time to install it - figure 2 to 3 hours to be safe. The whole front bumper cover has to come off, more than once. The LS splitter is indeed made to fit this CS lower valance, and it shows, but the install was tedious with so many bolts/clips and the test fitting to line up the support strut "through holes". Once finished and put together for the first time, it can then go on and off in 2-3 minutes (which we might do to ease trailer loading/unloading and prevent an "oops!" on the street). We were missing 14 pieces from the hardware kit, so figure in a trip to a specialty hardware store if you get this thing. The counter-sunk mounting hardware is all M6-1.0, so are the 22 qty nut-clips they mate to; our kit was 14 clips short but Ford is supposed to be sending an extra hardware kit "soon". Zero instructions, so AJ looked online for some tips (not much help) then figured the rest out on his own. We might make an instruction guide for this in the future.



Of course we weighed everything before it went onto the car. Looks like the ABS plastic splitter itself (which is thick!) is 12.2 pounds, sticks out past the bumper 5" exactly (American Iron class limit), and the hardware and bolt-on strut mount for the splitter weighs another 5.5 pounds. So will this thing produce enough downforce to offset the $700 cost and 17.7 pounds of added junk? I don't know - what do you think? The AI class 2010+ Mustang racers seem to use this thing, as do the pro racers in the S197.


Shazam! That thing is big. But no, I wouldn't stand on it...

We've street tested it today and it works fine there. Only one light scrape on a very steep parking lot entrance incline that Amy had trouble with before the splitter, so we'll be extra careful there. If she scrapes it up too much in street driving we'll pull it off and only use it for track events, and install it at the track. Its not too low for street use even at our lowered ride height, really, if you drive carefully and have half a brain. Again with an electric impact it only takes 2-3 minutes to swap it on/off now that all of the brackets and nut-clips are installed.


Brake Pads + Cooling

After the track event last month at ECR, AJ swapped the rotors and pads from the Hawk DTC-70s back to the HP+ pads and the street rotors. The DTCs were melted to slag and are in the trash bin. The HP+ pads don't look much better. Me thinks these Hawk pads are full of filler - it would explain their low price point, and their low threshold of abuse.



I was only getting 2-3 hot laps on the DTC-70s at ECR before I noticed significant brake fade and had to take a cool down lap. We're going to switch to a higher cost set of race pads before the next track event. PFC 01, Ferodo R4S, something. We're also going to make a brake cooling kit for the car. After reading about the issues with installation on the Ford kit, plus the added hassles of making something that is STX legal (cannot cut the fender liners for cooling hose), we're going to take a stab at it here. According to many, cooling air to the rotors via the two 3" ducts on the CS lower valance helps tremendously when used on track.


Wait... Track Events???

Yes, track events. I am breaking my own, very sensible rule of no longer tracking this "still too new" car yet again. It just rolled 10,000 miles today, so I guess the new has worn off!! Hehe. I'm going to try to hit several NASA Time Trial events this year in the Mustang - I just had too much fun driving it on track with the extra grip and new horsepower in December. Due to the massive restrictions of the base classing that NASA levies against this car, I'm moving it out of TTB, skipping TTA completely (I added up 64 points of mods from aero, shocks and tires alone!) and slipping right into TTS (8.7:1 pounds per hp) - which is a simpler power-to-weight class. It probably won't do well against the modded Corvettes and other creations that show up in TTS but at least I won't be counting every point, taking 4 points for having no OEM wing, 2 points for the stock brakes, etc, etc. I could literally build an STX classed autocross car, still on street tires, that was up into TTS class on points alone. I know I know... those are the rules for TT, but I'm just going to bypass all of that and go have fun.

With the 315mm Kumho gumballs, the current 430 whp, and the added aero bits in store we might not be that slow, but who knows until we track it? I'm ALWAYS fast when bench racing! The car is under the power-to-weight limit with 3650 pounds (with driver) and 430 whp - but only just. I'll have my dyno chart and classing work sheet ready at the next NASA event, in case I screw up and stumble upon a competitive set-up. Bad part is that I'm missing the first two NASA Texas events, due to scheduling conflicts, which sucks (MSR-H and MSR-C). I'm not happy about this AT ALL but these two were unavoidable. I will be at the April TWS event and should have two more track test days before TWS (TK2K12/GSS and Pro-Touring/HHR). NASA Texas has 9 events planned this year in this region so we could have plenty of chances to go have fun in TTS.


315/35/18 Tires on 18x10 D-Force

If we're running in TTS we could use wider tires, right? We also had several S197 Mustang autocrossers ask if we knew if 315mm tires would fit the car on our new D-Force 18x10" wheels. I had my doubts about using a tire that wide on "only" a 10" wide wheel, but I gave it a try. Ordered a set of 315/35/18 Kumho V710 R compounds to see...



This set actually came free from Kumho - our spoils from winning the $2011 GRM Challenge (and our E30 V8 is on the cover of the next GRM mag!). So yesterday I took one of the 18x10s and mounted one of the 315mm Kumhos, which is shown above. It looks a bit squeezed on the wheel, to say the least. For me, I'd want an 11" wide wheel for a tire that big, or maybe an 11.5". But for some autocrossers, this is fine (look at some of the crazy squeezed stuff Stock class guys do). Today we stuck them on the Mustang, starting with the front and using a 5/16" spacer we had...



Monster room up front, both inboard and out, with this 5/16" spacer. It would work with as little as a 1/8" spacer, but to be safe I'm going to recommend a 1/4" spacer when using this massive 315mm tire up front with these wheels. If you stick with a more sensible 275 or 285mm tire it still needs no spacer on these wheels, front or rear.



Checked them at full lock, room for days. Now this is with -3 of camber up front, but that's not much in my book. That's what we use for the street on this car. Now on the rear it wasn't as ideal, but still "good enough for auto-x" in most people's eyes. So I would say "these tires fit" but I won't be running these 315s on a 10" wheel. Stick with 285s or smaller, as those tires fit the 10" wheel width properly - no squeeze.



I'm now pulling the 315mm test tire off the 18x10s and re-mounting the 275/40/18s. Damn, we need a tire machine here at Vorshlag. It would pay for itself in one racing season. On the prowl for a deal. So now I've got these massive tires with no wheels to use them on. So... once we get the panhard and upper control arm on later this week we'll measure for 18x11 front and 18x11.5" rear 3-piece wheels. Forgeline, CCW, something. These should fit with fairly different offsets front and back. Can't let these tires go to waste, and it sure would make for some monster TTS grip.


Rear Suspension Fixes - Quick and Dirty

Our first autocrosses for the Mustang are in early March, with a track event in mid-February, so we've got some new rear suspension bits to install and test before then. I feel that much our our low speed traction problems in this car center around the compromised rear suspension geometry. When you lower the car with this 3-link rear suspension the pinion angle on the axle gets out of whack.



Solid axle RWD cars have so many limitations when compared to an IRS set-up that the SCCA Street Touring rules give the stick-axle vehicles all sorts of leeway, and we're going to finally attack these issues. We did a lot of looking, thought about making our own stuff, then looked at the calendar and bought the Spohn Performance's upper control arm and panhard bar as a stop-gap solution. Their adjustable length upper control arm allows us to adjust the pinion angle properly at the lowered ride height. The adjustable panhard bar lets us center the axle relative to the car, when lowered. Each piece features their optional "Del-Sphere" joints , which allow for high angular movement without bind or noise, at least on paper. These are basically giant spherical joints made inside forged steel ends with Delrin material surrounding the steel ball joint. They are rebuildable - we bought the tool to do that. Seems like a neat little joint that could give you the best of a rod end but without the metal-to-metal street nightmares. Once these new arms are installed we will set the pinion angle for our lower ride height and do some before and after acceleration data logging. I'm hoping for some help in 1st and 2nd gear for STX use - keep hope alive!


Non-NASA Track Events?

The first event of the year we're trying to make is Feb 17th at Harris Hill Road in San Marcos, being hosted by Pro-Touring.com. It includes an autocross, speed-stop event, and a timed track day, with a trophy for the combined winner? At least - we think so. Details are sketchy at the moment, but it looks like fun. The problem is they have one rule - tire treadwear limit is 200 - which rules out damned near every tire we have for the car (all four sets of our ST legal stuff on hand is 140-180 treadwear).



The Dunlop Star Spec tires are 200 treadwear and I've had great luck with them on track before (in the EVO X, at April 2010 Tire Test we did, the December ChumpCar event, and my 265/40/17 rears that I've barely used in this car) and there are two other 200 TW tires that could be fast for this series (they use the Optima Challenge rules), including: Falken RT-615K (275/35/18 @ $275 or 295/40/18 @ $300) and the Nitto NT05 ($275/35R18 @ $213, 275/40R18 @ $202, 285/35R18 @ $223, 295/35R18 @ $243). I don't really want to spend $800-1200 on tires to run for one event (and they'd be pretty much useless for anything else other than street use - which I have the fresh 275/40R18 RE-11s for), so I might beg/borrow/steal a set. So if any of you have some fresh 275/35/18 Dunlop Star Specs or any of these other tires in the sizes listed you'd like to loan me for 2 days, please speak up! (I have a line on some 275 Dunlops, but they are anything but fresh) In a pinch I might use that pair of 17x9's and 265s we have for the rear, but I'd really like something wider in 18" that we could put on the D-Force 18x10s.

We've still got some work to do before then, including the brake cooling, the Spohn parts, and some rear aero. Anyone have a good used 2010-up Mustang trunk for sale?? I'll post up with an update when we've tackled that stuff. We plan on a before/after test of 2nd gear acceleration on a control set of tires (probably the 265/35/18 Hankook RS-3) when the Spohn parts are installed.

More soon,

Last edited by Fair!; 01-25-2012 at 03:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Unread 01-24-2012, 10:45 PM
John in Houston's Avatar
John in Houston John in Houston is offline
Mega Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Parker, Colorado
Posts: 1,570
Send a message via Yahoo to John in Houston
Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

If you are only getting 2-3 laps before the brakes fade, then look into the FRPP brake cooling kit. Night-and-day difference on mine... and the 70s now last an entire session.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Unread 01-26-2012, 04:55 PM
ShaneM ShaneM is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3
Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

the brake cooling ducts help, I have the Boss 302 LS ducts on my Boss. However, i was also running the HP+ pads on my car at ECR (the orange Boss at the toy run) and have been having significant brake fade on those pads. I am going to move to carbotech, some of the guys that road race a lot say those pads do very well. they have a bobcat pad for the street with the same material as the race pads so you can run one set of rotors. They suggested running the XP8 out back for street and track and the XP10 front or the RP2 pads on track.

the RP2 is their endurance pad so it will have longer life. basically the same stopping power as the XP10, with less modulation. the trade off is longer pad life. in for results on the LS splitter, i have been eyeing that part. I do know one guy that was able to install his splitter by removing the grill alone FWIW.

you guys hitting the HPDE feb 25 at ECR? i would like to see some track times on mods for boss 302's that show gains, do you guys have any local boss customers you can lure to the track with your stuff installed? We are all looking for track proven parts to lower times without upsetting the balance of the car.

Last edited by ShaneM; 01-26-2012 at 05:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Unread 01-28-2012, 05:12 PM
Fair!'s Avatar
Fair! Fair! is offline
I blame the internet
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,998
Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneM View Post
you guys hitting the HPDE feb 25 at ECR? i would like to see some track times on mods for boss 302's that show gains, do you guys have any local boss customers you can lure to the track with your stuff installed? We are all looking for track proven parts to lower times without upsetting the balance of the car.
Feb 25th? Hadn't heard about it - what group? Costs?
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Unread 01-28-2012, 05:14 PM
ShaneM ShaneM is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3
Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair! View Post
Feb 25th? Hadn't heard about it - what group? Costs?
yeah its the first HPDE for the year, $150 with an instructor or solo. green, blue, yellow, red

http://www.eaglescanyon.com/2008/home.php
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Unread 02-04-2012, 10:46 AM
twistedneck twistedneck is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Dearborn, MI
Posts: 17
Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

Nice upgrades to the exhaust.. i swear i can hear my slip on axle backs leaking.. but its too late now!

Have you considered adding hood vents for front end grip also? The new functional hood vents for 2013 reduced lift in front significantly from what the engineers have told me. No more hood trying to bow up in the center and rip off over 150 MPH. I'm looking for a simple way to cut the hood and add in the 2013 vents.. watch the Boss 302R in car footage from the 2012 Rolex race, that hood is bowing up when Ian James hits about 150MPh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4WOSu9rtLY
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Unread 02-04-2012, 03:26 PM
GaryK GaryK is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Default Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

I don't know if you guys are interested or not, but I weighed my 2012 base GT with manual trans and no options other than front plate bracket. With everything in the car as it comes from Ford and a full tank of fuel it showed 3608 lbs on the scales.

Just taking the spare tire and associated junk out along with the floor mats and dropping 10 gallons of fuel would get it down to about 3500 lbs. I know the Brembo brakes add a bit, but I'm guessing the premium model adds some weight relative to the base model too.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 6 (0 members and 6 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.