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  #11  
Unread 12-22-2008, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Project Update for December 22nd, 2008: Wanted to do a quick update on the Evo. We're waiting on rear top mounts to test with the rear suspension, but we had enough time on Friday afternoon to get the fronts on. By "we" I mean "me", Fair was hiding selling something or designing something so he said. Gosh! ha!

We installed our new camber plate and AST 4200 double adjustable shocks. For this first install we used Hyperco 7", 450 lb, 60mm ID springs. Not sure where we'll end up but that's where we'll start.



The spring perch was moved up to almost seat with the spring platform when installed. This lowered the car approximately 1" from stock. I didn't want to lower it too much with stock height still in the rear. We'll finalize various spring height combinations depending on what dealers and customers ask for. Yes, we're aware of driving with such drastically different rates and how that affects handling, ride, etc. This is just to test fitment, etc. We'll put the package together and head out to the track over the holidays if all goes smoothly.

The camber plates had our typical range of just over 2.0 degrees of change per side. I didn't get to check caster yet, but we did design it to provide stock caster and one adjustment for more caster. With the strut eccentric maxed out the car sat with -1.2 of camber and maxed out at -3.3 of camber. Since the eccentric gives you some range we will probably change the camber plate to have a final max of -4.5 and then -2.3 or so. If you change the eccentric bolt then you can get back into the stock spec range. The other side of the car had the bolt minimized and it was only at -0.9. So you can see we have a large enough range to give you street and track setups. No one ever runs as much camber as we do, but we've seen situations where some tire/surface combinations require it. Usually it is for autocrossing, but this car will be doing that as well.



I drove the car over the weekend, granted all the testing was street driving on 5 clicks from full soft rebound, 0 on compression. We have 12 clicks total rebound and 12 clicks compression. The car rode extremely well passing the "spouse test" with flying colors. She had no idea anything had changed on the car which is what we were shooting for. That likely means we can go higher in rates helping some of that lean in the 3600 pound Evo.



Here's where it sits at the moment. Lowering the front really helps visibility. The Evo sits up so high, us shorter torso folk can't see over the huge, flat hood.

continued below

Last edited by Fair!; 01-16-2018 at 04:38 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 12-22-2008, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

continued from above

One more benefit - this AST suspension upgrade is also making the car lighter:


19.4 pounds for the OEM strut, spring and top mount

We have seen a nice 12+ pound drop of unsprung weight off the front axle with these new bits.


13.1 pounds for the AST 4200, Hyperco spring and Vorshlag camber-caster plate

After we get some more street and track testing on the prototype coilover design and new Vorshlag camber plate, they will both move to production units.

Thanks,

Last edited by Fair!; 01-16-2018 at 04:40 PM.
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  #13  
Unread 12-29-2008, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Project Update for December 29th, 2008: While many of you are on holiday from work we are putting the EVO X through its paces on the dyno, looking for more power!



Dyno testing for the baseline setup and First Dyno Tune at Cobb Tuning. The EVO still has the completely stock exhaust and otherwise is "as delivered" from the dealer (we removed our "lightweight" exhaust for this test and replaced it with the OEM system).


click to enlarge

+50 whp peak and more power everywhere. Car already felt good at all engine speeds but feels amazingly good now.

Last edited by Fair!; 01-16-2018 at 04:42 PM.
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  #14  
Unread 01-09-2009, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Project Update for January 9th, 2009: We are plugging away at the EVO X, looking for more places to drop weight on this big car.

LIGHTWEIGHT BATTERY INSTALL

A common autocrosser/track trick to lose weight from a car is to use a lightweight (motorcycle) AGM style battery in place of the stock unit, when allowed. We have used Odyssey PC680 batteries in the past but this time we tried a similar unit from a company called DEKA.


Left: OEM battery. Right: The Deka ETX18L we used instead

The Original Equipment batteries used in most modern cars (which can range from 35-55 pounds) are almost always a lead-acid wet cell battery, spec'd to work in extreme hot/cold and to have a lot of reserve power - so you can leave your lights or hazard indicators on for a long time and still be able to start a car at -30F. With smart use in "engine off" situations, racers can deal with a bit less reserve power and we tend to use much lighter, high cranking amp mini-batteries that are sized for motorcycles.



The Absorbed Gas Mat (AGM) style batteries can deal with more vibration and do not de-gas (Hydrogen) like a standard wet lead-acid battery, and the vibration proof AGMs also work better in racing environments. We've used many brands over the years but have noticed that a lot of the higher cost names are just rebadged batteries made by a select few battery manufacturers.

The Deka AGM battery we picked for the EVO X is one we've used in a number of our other cars, including our V8 powered BMW. They work well for the relatively mild winters and hot summer weather we see here in Texas (15F to 105) and usually last 2-3 years of street/track/autocross use. A $10 low amperage trickle charger (a "battery tender") is a good idea if the car sits for more than 5 days or so without being used.



The factory battery mount was surprisingly versatile and simple (stock design used J-hooks that you can get at AutoZone!) and with little more than a spacer block (with a shaped cutout to grab the narrower Deka) it worked great and took all of 15 minutes to swap in. I'm not showing the spacer up close and no, we are not going to be selling this part. Yes, it will even pass a tech inspection - something most homemade battery mounts rarely do.

This Deka battery cost about $78 and the Werker SAE top post adapters (automotive style brass posts that convert a motorcycle battery for automotive use) were another $9. So for about $90 we dropped another ~17 pounds from the car. Yes, it removes weight off the rear, but we always go for the lightest legal class weight at all costs (esp. on this heavy EVO!) rather than strive for the "perfect weight balance" by adding weight (which is not beneficial). Car started great and has been working fine for street use.

Cheers,

Last edited by Fair!; 01-16-2018 at 04:46 PM.
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  #15  
Unread 01-09-2009, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Where did you get it, is that the normal published weight *ie is the published weight correct or off*, what is the CCA of this, have you compared any of the others *ETX16L, ETX20L........*?

Thank you!

*edit* apparently of the Deka's the 18L has the highest CCA @300, the 20L has a CCA of 275 but shows another 3# weight loss....
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Last edited by Thinkkker; 01-09-2009 at 11:35 AM.
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  #16  
Unread 01-09-2009, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

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Originally Posted by Thinkkker View Post
Where did you get it, is that the normal published weight *ie is the published weight correct or off*, what is the CCA of this, have you compared any of the others *ETX16L, ETX20L........*?

Thank you!


I never trust published weights for... anything. But its actually pretty close to what they stated for the ETX18L. I believe the "18" in the part number refers to the approx weight, by the way.
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  #17  
Unread 01-09-2009, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Project Update for January 11th, 2009: We finally got the spherical rear shock mounts in from AST for the EVO X and installed the 4200 rear shocks yesterday (the fronts went on a while back with our alloy steel Vorshlag spherical camber/caster plates). With these pieces in hand we can move forward with suspension testing.

NEW COILOVER SUSPENSION

Both Hanchey and I have driven the car around extensively now (test loop, street driving) with the 4200s on front and back, and its awesome. We'll tweak a few things then put these into production - and we already have a brand new shock design (upcoming 5100/5200 series ASTs) planned for testing on this car very soon.



We are scrambling to line up a track day to test 4200 shock settings, spring rates, alignment tweaks, etc. Brian wants to change the base rebound valving on the fronts before we hit the track, then we're ready.

Full gallery of AST / EVO X installation pics: http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/6894033_ZP2NB


These are the ride heights were are happiest with. No droop travel was lost at these heights.

Of course we rated the OEM rear springs (some goofy tapered/progressive Eibach spring). It was variable rate 160-215 #/in, and we used a 550 #/in rate for initial testing. The car rides better than stock with the compression valving turned down. The OEM shocks it came with are garbage - one of them is already leaking, at 6000 miles, and they have zero compression damping and too much rebound. Its not hard to improve handling over this stuff, even with nearly 3X the stock spring rate.


Better picture of the Vorshlag camber-caster plates (pre-production) add positive caster and negative camber adjustment


Our front spring package allows the lower spring perch to sit above the tire (lots more room inboard)


Setting rear ride height (left) then locking down the lower perch (right)


Left: Stock rear shock assembly = 12.6 lbs. Right: AST 4200 rear was 9.1 lbs


Rear rebound knobs are accessible with the forward plastic trunk bulkhead removed, but we'll add remote cable adjusters for easier access instead



Like up front, the rear shock's Compression adjuster knob is at the bottom. Its easy to reach if you lean down and reach behind the tire - enabling fast/pit stop valving adjustments. We'll post up with more data once we get this car on track with the DL-1 onboard.

Cheers,

Last edited by Fair!; 01-16-2018 at 04:50 PM.
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  #18  
Unread 01-13-2009, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Project Update for January 13th, 2009: A quick update on my birthday, showing the new even lighter exhaust we made.

LIGHTWEIGHT RACE EXHAUST, Ver 2.0

After hearing how quiet our first "race" exhaust ended up at, and with the main muffler gobbling up a bit more weight than we liked, I went back and re-made the lightweight after cat exhaust on the EVO X. This is just a one-off exhaust we made for our shop car and not something we're going to mass produce or market, so its not exactly pretty but it is functional. The system is pieced together with thin wall 3" carbon steel exhaust tubing and mandrel bent bends from SPD Exhaust. We picked up a few V-band clamp assemblies from them for this version as well.



The first step was cutting off the rear section in front of the main (rearmost) muffler we added, with an eye for the added clearance room around the to the rear subframe (1/4" is enough). I tacked the clamp to the now "mid-pipe" section (shown above) and mocked up the exhaust with the muffler on the car and tacked that end in place.


The rear muffler section weighs 12.9 pounds and is now removable.

We then added a hanger to the back of the mid-pipe (bolting to one of the many chassis bracing points) and then made a new rear section to take the place of the muffler, and added an additional V-band stub and mount to that end. Everything fit great and it sounded a LOT better. The entire race exhaust (sans muffler) is now 16 pounds after the cat.


The "Race" version was mocked up. This rear section weighs just 4.5 pounds and is a bit louder.

Brian drove the car around for a day with the race setup, loved it, and now its removed for coating. Building another setup like this for a 2008 STI this week (Paul's STU car) and we'll get that one coated as well.



An extra 45 bend and a short length of 3" straight pipe + a V-band and a little bit of work, so wasn't much more money, and now we have a dual purpose, reconfigurable lightweight race/street exhaust. Thanks to Paul for helping with the version 2 work.

continued below

Last edited by Fair!; 01-16-2018 at 04:52 PM.
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  #19  
Unread 01-24-2009, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

continued from above

Here is the exhaust coated with a high temp black ceramic coating:





Should provide a little more long term protection on this carbon steel exhaust system.

Cheers,

Last edited by Fair!; 01-16-2018 at 04:53 PM.
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  #20  
Unread 02-15-2009, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Vorshlag/AST begin Evo build!

Quote:
When are you going to test the bars? I am assuming you will use both front and rear. Will be interesting to see how you like them with the coilover set up. Have you thought of a rear bar upgrade only to start?
After looking at all of the many options available, Hanchey just contacted Cobb about anti sway bars and we'll likely go pick them up this week (along with their high flow catalyst). We're going to put them on the front for sure and probably both ends soon.


Left: Rear bar looks easy to change. Right: Front bar = notsomuch

The front bar doesn't look like fun to remove/replace on the EVO X but even with 450F/550R #/in spring rates it still needs help with roll control. We are going to up the front spring rate as well before doing one final test, then taking the entire suspension off and sending it to a magazine for one of their test cars. We have a new setup (5000 series Inverted ASTs) coming for our EVO to test with very soon. We're already testing 5100, 5200 and 5300 inverted shocks on a number of cars and the testing is going VERY well. We should have 5100s on the shelf for the EVO 8/9 and EVO X soon.



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