Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

LS1 engine for E36?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • LS1 engine for E36?

    As you all know, I've been "looking" for a complete LS1 engine for the LS1 E36 project for over a year. Everyone that has complete LS1 engines for sale wants $2500-3000+, for a used engine that is far from a guaranteed good motor.



    Several of you here have sent me links to LS1 short- and long-blocks for sale and these run from $750-2000+. I found a source locally for $1000 used, salvaged LS1 longblocks, but that option still has lots of uncertanties.

    In the mean time I started acquiring all sorts of parts to build a complete LS1 mock-up engine. I have managed to get 1 good block, 1 bad block, 3 sets of exhaust manifols (useless), 1 junk LS1 intake, a set of good core heads, set of centerbolt LS1 valve covers (being delivered), front and rear covers (gotta go get the latter), 2 oil pans, a good starter, some head bolts, ECM, Z06 MAF, alum flywheel, a junk water pump, and a partridge in a pear tree. Here's what I have so far:




    I now have a line on a complete motor locally ('9 I found this week but it is missing most of the accessories and harnesses, and still $2500 (with ECM) or $3500 (with T56 trans). That's a lotta coin for a used engine, right? And I have a lot of what I need to build a complete engine. Here's what I lack, that I can see:

    ● LS6 or LS2 intake and TB
    ● Alternator and bracket
    ● P/S pump and bracket
    ● A/C comp and bracket
    ● Fuel rials + injectors
    ● LS2 water pump (shorter)
    ● Sensors and stuff
    ● Pulleys and balancer
    ● Longblock parts and assembly

    That's all I need. Well, a wiring harness from Painless Wiring, too (Ft. Worth). I think I can have a longblock built for less than $2500, with non-stock crank/pistons/rods, and that would be new and better than stock... better build tolerances than GM ever had on these (slap happy pistons). Maybe even more than 347 cubic inches.

    I am going to talk to Koenig at HPE to see what it would cost to get a longblock built, but in the mean time, the header fabricator wants to have as many external bits to bolt to the mock-up block as possible, to better fit everything. Alternator, p/s pump, a/c, valve covers... hell, I might as well finish what I started, right?
    Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
    2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
    EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

  • #2
    LS1 engine for E36?

    ● LS6 intake and TB = $459 for LS6 (Summit), TB = $200+● Alternator and bracket = $100 used?
    ● P/S pump and bracket = $100 used (have quote)
    ● A/C comp and bracket = $50 used (passed on one 3 months ago)
    ● Fuel rials + injectors = ??
    ● LS2 water pump (shorter) = $150-200?
    ● Sensors and stuff = ??
    ● Pulleys and balancer = $160 for March underdrives (this week)● Longblock parts and assembly = ??
    ● 8 Coils = ??

    LS2 engine changes: link Man I'd sure like to get one of those LS2 blocks! But at $1195... I'll use my LS1 block I paid $300 for. 4.00" bore sure is nice!

    I see that the LS2's throttle body does in fatc point upwards, which won't work on this cramped E36 hood. The 90mm TB for the LS2 is electronic throttle only, too, which won't work. LS6 it is.

    Or...

    Buy this LS2 crate engine. 6,375.00. Cha-CHING!



    P/N LS9750 does not include the computer, beauty covers, alternator, starter, belts, brackets, or pulleys apart from the crankshaft pulley.
    Realistically... that's too much $$.
    Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
    2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
    EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

    Comment


    • #3
      LS1 engine for E36?

      A built motor sure sounds better on paper but research it first. Those labor rates and endless upgrade parts may bury you in the end. The nice thing about a crate motor is that you know it will last. Lets see what Eric has to say...

      I really like the idea of a stock LS2(with a cam upgrade). It's basically an upgraded LS6 and much better lubrication. Sure would make me feel safer lapping in a better oiling stock LS2 vs. a built LS1. Besides a stock LS2 with an upgraded cam will probably put 425ish to the ground. That's big/reliable power.
      McCall

      Comment


      • #4
        LS1 engine for E36?

        Originally posted by Fair!
        Or...

        Buy this LS2 crate engine. 6,375.00. Cha-CHING!

        Oh that is SO the way to go. Lots of headaches gone right there. PLENTY of power. Pro-rate it with selling the parts from your rag-tag LS1 parts collection.

        All aftermarket modding is going to gravitate toward the new LS2 motors anyway now that the LS1/6 is gone.

        Drop it in, bolt it up, wire it and go.
        '05 STi
        Obfuscation usually requires a lot more words than if you simply focus on fundamental principles, so I’m not at all surprised by the loquaciousness of liberals.

        Comment


        • #5
          LS1 engine for E36?

          There is also the "pimp" factor in going with an LS2. I would think it would improve resale value also in the long run.
          '11 Mustang GT / '95 Frankenpreza

          "A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster."
          - Dr. Clarkson

          Comment


          • #6
            LS1 engine for E36?

            Originally posted by Paul
            There is also the "pimp" factor in going with an LS2. I would think it would improve resale value also in the long run.

            I'm just down for it being finished, but I think an LS2 would be sweet. You should probably do the LS1 for cheap factor, get a system set up that you could sell, then do an LS2 later when cash is a bit freer (hah).
            -Sean Martin
            2009 Pontiac G8 GT

            Comment


            • #7
              LS1 engine for E36?

              Repost from elsewhere, with lots of related links and prices...

              Just a few GM Performance Parts division LS1/LS6 listings, with prices from Scoggins Dickey:

              LS6 Long Block Long block Service Engine with Camaro Oil Pan Kit. 405hp. P/n 12498399 $5,289.80
              ● 2004 LS6 405hp Corvette Production GM Performance Parts Crate Engine 12578104 $7,295.00
              Bare 6.0L Cast Iron Block 12551366 $695.00
              ● 7.0L LS1, 4.125" Bore, C5-R Aluminum Cylinder Block 12480030 $6,395.00 (note: The C5-R block is ridiculously expensive and there are much lower cost alternatives to making a 7.0-7.5L stroker LS1. For half that cost you can build a modified, sleeved and strengthened LS1 block that can support 450+ cubic inches)
              Camshaft, LS6 2002 Z06, 204/218 Duration @ 0.050. Hydraulic Roller Camshaft 12565308 $199.95
              LS1 Engine Kit w/Computer GM Performance Parts Crate Engine Assembly 25534322. "...comes with the fuel injection, exhaust manifolds, flexplate, computer and harness." $6,025.00
              LS6 2001 Z06 Intake Manifold 88894339 $399.50
              LS6 CNC Ported Assembled Aluminum Cylinder Heads 88958622 $992.25
              LS2 Intake Manifold 89017648 $235.75 This is made for the 400hp LS2's 90mm throttle body... !?!
              LS2 4.00" Bore Aluminum Bare Block, Gen IV LS2BLOCK $1,195.00
              LS1 CNC Ported Showroom Stock Assembled Aluminum Cylinder Heads 25534321 $689.50
              LS2 400hp 6.0L crate engine 12499750 $5,495.00
              Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
              2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
              EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

              Comment


              • #8
                LS1 engine for E36?

                Originally posted by Fair!
                LS6 Long Block Long block Service Engine with Camaro Oil Pan Kit. 405hp. P/n 12498399 $5,289.80
                LS2 400hp 6.0L crate engine 12499750 $5,495.00
                There's no replacement for displacement. How much more potential does the LS2 have in it vs. the LS6?
                '05 STi
                Obfuscation usually requires a lot more words than if you simply focus on fundamental principles, so I’m not at all surprised by the loquaciousness of liberals.

                Comment


                • #9
                  LS1 engine for E36?

                  Originally posted by Oversteer
                  There's no replacement for displacement. How much more potential does the LS2 have in it vs. the LS6?
                  The only major difference between the LS2 and LS6 is the slightly larger bore. LS1 is 3.90" bore and 3.62" stroke, LS2 is 4.00" bore and 3.62" stroke.. 100 thousands is a lot more bore. It would be nice to have, as this unshrouds the valves and adds cubes, but not at the cost:

                  Bare LS1 block = $250-300 (used, and I have a good one)
                  Bare LS2 block = $1195 (new)

                  Wish I could afford that LS2 block! Won't see used cores for a while yet.

                  I'm still sticker shocked from the LS2/LS1/LS6 crate motors... don't think that'll ever fly with my budget. $5000-6500 is a lot of coin.

                  Spending $2500 on a complete/used/running LS1 might be my only real option. If I can get an LS1 longblock built using my block and head cores for >$2000 that might also work.

                  One knock against the LS2 is the angled intake manifold. The TB is angled upwards, which is exactly the wrong angle for this E36 install, where hoodlines are tight at the front. Also, the 90mm TB for the LS2 is electronic throttle only, which won't work.

                  Prolly looking at a built or used LS1 with an LS6 intake.
                  Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                  2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                  EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    LS1 engine for E36?

                    LS2 based 402 shortblock for $3995 from SDPC...

                    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243997

                    ...parts are on the way in big QTY to make this happen at a fair price. We are not only going to build you a very nice short block, but we are also going to send every conversion piece you will need to make it happen.

                    Short block break down
                    *LS2 aluminum block (4.000 bore)
                    *Eagle 4.000 stroke crank
                    *Crower 6.125 I beam LS1 specific rods
                    *Diamond forged pistons
                    *Diamond file fit rings
                    *Clevitte 77 rod and main bearings
                    ***Balanced & assembled***

                    We will also ship with every short block....
                    **LS2 parts:
                    *timming set
                    *cam sensor
                    *front cover
                    *front seal & gasket
                    *valley cover

                    Everything listed above for $3,995.00
                    Not a bad price. Koenig had a similar deal on 6.0L iron truck block 410" stroker shortblocks for the same price. Still, add in the price of the heads, cam, and ALL of the bits and pieces to make a running car = no way. Gotta get a complete, used LS1 first. Too many reasons (and little nickel-and-dime parts) to do so.

                    So, as of this moment, my plans are:

                    - Buy a used/complete/running LS1 with accessories
                    - Put into E36
                    - Wire it in with the ECM and MAF I have
                    - Using a painless LS1 non-OBDII harness
                    - Drive it
                    - Worry about making more power later!
                    Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                    2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                    EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      LS1 engine for E36?

                      Ditto.. just get it running first!
                      Toth: "I would sue Duck, but I don't know what I would do with 3 pennies and a hoopty GTO."
                      Me: "I never finish anyth..."

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X