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Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

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  • #31
    Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

    Better hope your aftermarket 12lb battery does not go flat on your trailer queen on the way to Nationals!!

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    • #32
      Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

      There's no rule that requires the OBD-II system to be in the "ready" state. It's legal to swap in a brand-new, never powered-up ECU right before the event. It's legal to disconnect the battery for storage or maintenance. Doug is wrong on this.

      If there were a protest, it's reasonable to expect that the car be brought to ready state for testing. That's a hassle, but so is an engine tear-down.

      Brian

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      • #33
        Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

        Well, it's been fun. I'm heading off to Colorado to play mountain man for a few days. You can bash me while I'm gone...

        Brian

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        • #34
          Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

          Originally posted by bfitz
          If there were a protest, it's reasonable to expect that the car be brought to ready state for testing. That's a hassle, but so is an engine tear-down.

          Brian
          And how do we, as competitors, know when our cats are in a ready status or not. Are you going to follow me driving home monitoring them to see if they turn "ready" or not?

          What if the cats become "ready", but the CEL doesn't come on for another 100 miles?

          How exactly are you going to enforce this?

          P.S. If Doug Gill is unable to interpret the clarification, how are we supposed to?

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

            I think we need to just ignore this latest clarification... I mean EVERYONE ignore it, and ignore the SEB and STAC completely. Now that there's going to be something wrong on pretty much every car the only people capable of being 100% legal is someone in a dead stock vehicle.

            This means that we all just don't protest each other for this trivial BS or some DFL bottom of the class weenie is going to get a jacket in STU. **

            **I had a joke right there about Mark Sipe in my first draft of this post, but deleted it.
            Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
            2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
            EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

              Originally posted by Max
              I would agree with all those proposals except for limiting AWD STU cars to a 9" wheel. I don't think running wider wheels when limited to a 245 tire is a huge advantage, but it does help me not to run spacers which just make me nervous, since I am limited on the size of extended studs I can fit on the front of an STI. I run 10" on the front of my STI, mainly because that's the only size with the offset I want.
              Well, that might not be a good argument for not limiting wheel width (availability) but its certainly a legit wheel right now. It always seemed odd to me that STX did explicitly limit wheel and tire width but STU only limits tire size. Odder still that all of STX has the same limits, but the turbo AWD cars seem to have the power and traction advanatages without any handicap at all.

              I think we all agree that the tire limits in STU are to keep the extra power potential and double the forward traction of the AWD cars in check... so for non-AWD STX cars it only makes sense to give them some sort of grip advantage... and a 255mm tire seems fair to the AWD cars' 225.

              Likewise, if we admit the COMPLETE LACK OF TURBO BOOST ENFORCEABILITY (no cheating implicated on you, Max) and push to allow boost alterations (which already goes on, sometimes unknowingly)... then there needs to be something to really limit grip for the AWD cars or they will just get that much faster again... I thought a downsize to 225 or 235mm max AWD tire size would go over like a turd in a punch bowl, but maybe "allowing" the RWD cars to go to a 285mm tire to compensate is also a good "balance" to the added power that boost mods would allow. The wheel width maximum and any tire balacing would only make sense if boost was allowed for the turbo cars.

              Of course, this only makes sen IF the archaic fender rolling rules are streamlined!

              Yes, there are few 275mm competitive ST tires out there (Falken 615, Bridgestone RE050) but there are a lot in 285mm. I think THIS, allowing a 285 on a RWD STU car, would finally allow them to compete against the AWD cars. Don't think my personal bias is clouding my judgement - I've got a lot more wins lately in AWD cars than RWD cars. Right now I see a large advantage to going AWD turbo than RWD in this class... with a 285 allowed I think its a lot more balanced.

              Fair and Balanced - its not just for Fox News!

              Originally posted by Max
              It does upset me to read the amount of posts on this site accusing all the turbo cars of cheating. I think most of us who compete at a National level go to very great lengths to make sure our cars are legal.

              Flame away

              -Max Hayter
              #31 STU
              Hehehe... that's just us non-turbo driver's lashing out against the power advantages that you guys can get, legal or not. When you're pumping out 100 less hp and have half the drive wheels and nearly the same weight, it temds to make you bitter.
              Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
              2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
              EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

                Originally posted by Fair!
                When you're pumping out 100 less hp and have half the drive wheels and nearly the same weight, it temds to make you bitter.
                We should not be blamed for your poor choice of race car

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

                  Originally posted by Max
                  We should not be blamed for your poor choice of race car
                  hehehe... I hear ya, but this class was once known for its diverse field of competitive cars. I think some folks are fooling themselves if they think the RWD non-turbos are still competitive, due to the previous Take Backs, maybe some amount of cheating/big power differences, and some unneccessary limitations within the STU ruleset (that limits the BMWs with only a 255 tire).

                  If things progress the way they've been going not only will the BMW drivers continue to leave STU but now maybe the turbo guys as well... that's no good.
                  Last edited by Fair!; 07-26-2007, 08:35 AM.
                  Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                  2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                  EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

                    I agree that it is good to have class diversity. It's a bit like Nascar though with each make squabbling over what is fair.

                    In my mind, each car has its strengths and weaknesses and it is down to course design as which car has the advantage. Simanyi killed us all the other week on a transition/slalom heavy course. No one got within two seconds of him, although admittedly I was extremely hungover!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

                      Originally posted by Max
                      I agree that it is good to have class diversity. It's a bit like Nascar though with each make squabbling over what is fair.

                      In my mind, each car has its strengths and weaknesses and it is down to course design as which car has the advantage. Simanyi killed us all the other week on a transition/slalom heavy course. No one got within two seconds of him, although admittedly I was extremely hungover!
                      I agree. We have plenty of DL-1 data to prove that each has advantages.

                      Personally I think no M3 driver drove well enough on the East course last year. Tunnell showed that it was M3 friendly. He doesn't suck either of course. West Course kinda screwed AWD cars b/c most of the tight stuff didn't have good places to stretch their legs. There was almost always another turn before they really step out.
                      Brian Hanchey
                      AST Suspension - USA

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

                        Originally posted by Fair!
                        Now that there's going to be something wrong on pretty much every car the only people capable of being 100% legal is someone in a dead stock vehicle.
                        My time has come...
                        '05 STi
                        Obfuscation usually requires a lot more words than if you simply focus on fundamental principles, so I’m not at all surprised by the loquaciousness of liberals.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

                          Originally posted by Max
                          We should not be blamed for your poor choice of race car
                          SNAP!!!
                          '11 Mustang GT / '95 Frankenpreza

                          "A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster."
                          - Dr. Clarkson

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

                            Originally posted by Oversteer
                            My time has come...
                            HA- you and me both. While personally I favor the takebacks and would like a "stock, with catback, coilovers, and camber plates" direction for the ST classes, all this change is making me a little leery of joining the fray. I thought these classes were official already, why keep fooling with the rules?
                            Teucci has a good point about trannies - Tommy

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                            • #44
                              Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

                              Originally posted by C3
                              HA- you and me both. While personally I favor the takebacks and would like a "stock, with catback, coilovers, and camber plates" direction for the ST classes, all this change is making me a little leery of joining the fray. I thought these classes were official already, why keep fooling with the rules?

                              Three words: NASA Time Trial
                              Brian Hanchey
                              AST Suspension - USA

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Letter Campaign to SEB, BOD against ST Take Backs!

                                Originally posted by hancheyb
                                Three words: NASA Time Trial
                                Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Time for some speed!
                                '11 Mustang GT / '95 Frankenpreza

                                "A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster."
                                - Dr. Clarkson

                                Comment

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