Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT + S197 Development Thread

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

    the brake cooling ducts help, I have the Boss 302 LS ducts on my Boss. However, i was also running the HP+ pads on my car at ECR (the orange Boss at the toy run) and have been having significant brake fade on those pads. I am going to move to carbotech, some of the guys that road race a lot say those pads do very well. they have a bobcat pad for the street with the same material as the race pads so you can run one set of rotors. They suggested running the XP8 out back for street and track and the XP10 front or the RP2 pads on track.

    the RP2 is their endurance pad so it will have longer life. basically the same stopping power as the XP10, with less modulation. the trade off is longer pad life. in for results on the LS splitter, i have been eyeing that part. I do know one guy that was able to install his splitter by removing the grill alone FWIW.

    you guys hitting the HPDE feb 25 at ECR? i would like to see some track times on mods for boss 302's that show gains, do you guys have any local boss customers you can lure to the track with your stuff installed? We are all looking for track proven parts to lower times without upsetting the balance of the car.
    Last edited by ShaneM; 01-26-2012, 05:01 PM.

    Comment


    • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

      Originally posted by ShaneM View Post
      you guys hitting the HPDE feb 25 at ECR? i would like to see some track times on mods for boss 302's that show gains, do you guys have any local boss customers you can lure to the track with your stuff installed? We are all looking for track proven parts to lower times without upsetting the balance of the car.
      Feb 25th? Hadn't heard about it - what group? Costs?
      Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
      2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
      EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

      Comment


      • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

        Originally posted by Fair! View Post
        Feb 25th? Hadn't heard about it - what group? Costs?
        yeah its the first HPDE for the year, $150 with an instructor or solo. green, blue, yellow, red

        http://www.eaglescanyon.com/2008/home.php

        Comment


        • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

          Nice upgrades to the exhaust.. i swear i can hear my slip on axle backs leaking.. but its too late now!

          Have you considered adding hood vents for front end grip also? The new functional hood vents for 2013 reduced lift in front significantly from what the engineers have told me. No more hood trying to bow up in the center and rip off over 150 MPH. I'm looking for a simple way to cut the hood and add in the 2013 vents.. watch the Boss 302R in car footage from the 2012 Rolex race, that hood is bowing up when Ian James hits about 150MPh.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4WOSu9rtLY

          Comment


          • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

            I don't know if you guys are interested or not, but I weighed my 2012 base GT with manual trans and no options other than front plate bracket. With everything in the car as it comes from Ford and a full tank of fuel it showed 3608 lbs on the scales.

            Just taking the spare tire and associated junk out along with the floor mats and dropping 10 gallons of fuel would get it down to about 3500 lbs. I know the Brembo brakes add a bit, but I'm guessing the premium model adds some weight relative to the base model too.

            Comment


            • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

              Originally posted by twistedneck View Post
              Nice upgrades to the exhaust.. i swear i can hear my slip on axle backs leaking.. but its too late now!

              Have you considered adding hood vents for front end grip also? The new functional hood vents for 2013 reduced lift in front significantly from what the engineers have told me. No more hood trying to bow up in the center and rip off over 150 MPH. I'm looking for a simple way to cut the hood and add in the 2013 vents.. watch the Boss 302R in car footage from the 2012 Rolex race, that hood is bowing up when Ian James hits about 150MPh
              Yea, we've got some rules restrictions that are holding me back from opening up the hood and reverse ducting the radiator. SCCA STX doesn't allow me to do any aero I want - but we can use "any" OEM front aero, so anything that came on a 2005-up S197 Mustang or that is in the Ford "Appearance" catalog (not Ford Motorsport catalog, after a rules clarification). This means OEM parts like the CS lower fascia and the Leguna Seca splitter are legal. I could switch to the 2013 GT500 front bumper cover, but I'm not sure about the hood. Is a hood considered aero by the SCCA? It is something I need to ask about. The SEB is like a bunch of Republican congressmen - all they know how to say is "No!".


              Originally posted by GaryK View Post
              I don't know if you guys are interested or not, but I weighed my 2012 base GT with manual trans and no options other than front plate bracket. With everything in the car as it comes from Ford and a full tank of fuel it showed 3608 lbs on the scales.

              Just taking the spare tire and associated junk out along with the floor mats and dropping 10 gallons of fuel would get it down to about 3500 lbs. I know the Brembo brakes add a bit, but I'm guessing the premium model adds some weight relative to the base model too.
              Wait... spare tire? Hmm, my car doesn't have s spare. Does your car come with the Brembos and 19" wheels, or 13" brakes and 18" wheels? I suspect the 18" wheel/non-Brembo package is a good deal lighter. I measured the "trunk junk" weight and fuel its not actually 100 pounds of fuel and trunk junk, on my car.



              Gasoline is a little over 6 pounds per gallon, so that's about 60 pounds if you drop 10 gallons. Add in the trunk junk and you've lost about 73 pounds, so around 3535 or so.... but yea, its getting down there. If you do have a spare tire that will weigh more, of course.


              This was the weight of a loaner '11 Brembo GT back in June 2010 - 3605 lbs with 1/2 tank of fuel

              After weighing this Brembo / 19x9" equipped loaner we borrowed from a Ford dealer we custom ordered our 2011 GT with all sorts of options I didn't want (my wife - oiy!) and it came in even heavier. We ran it out of fuel, removed the "trunk junk", then weighed it at 3563 lbs baseline. I always try to weigh them with nearly no fuel, or show the fuel gauge to account for fuel weight.


              This is the weight on our '11 Brembo GT with no fuel - 3563 lbs sans 12.7 lbs of "trunk junk"

              Sounds like your '12 is a little lighter than our car - probably different options and such, or the brakes. We've been on a quest to lose weight from this S197, and here's where we have it now with 18x10" wheels and 275/40/18 tires:



              Not much left we can remove or lighten and remain SCCA STX legal. Again, we're building this around two very different class rules, SCCA STX and NASA TTS, but using the SCCA ruleset when one set limits the other. Most of the cars we are racing against in STX are 2800-3000 pounds, but have the same tire width limits we do, which puts the Mustang at a disadvantage - but I knew that going in. If I could just find a "265" tire that was magically 11" wide... well, I came close. I've got one that is 10-3/4" wide. I'm not telling which brand it is though.

              Cheers,
              Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
              2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
              EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

              Comment


              • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                1) Have you looked into 2 piece rotors? Are these allowed? Full-Tilt boogie racing's rotors are affordable and shed some decent unsprung weight.

                2) The tiger racing vented hood is also a pretty big weight savings (10 lbs for CF, 20 lbs for Fiberglass, vs. ~35 lbs for OEM hood).

                3) How bout an aluminum or carbon fiber drive shaft? That would net another 15-30 lbs of weight reduction.

                4) I'm sure you've considered a dry-cell battery (Odyssey PC680 weighs 15 lbs vs. 30 lbs OEM).

                5) Removing sound deadening? This would probably net another 30-40 lbs.

                In all, the above probably shave another 75-80 lbs from the car getting you into the 3300 lb category. I believe the Boss 302S cars weigh a svelte 3000 lbs with a single race seat and no interior.

                Comment


                • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                  Originally posted by BlackNDecker View Post
                  1) Have you looked into 2 piece rotors? Are these allowed? Full-Tilt boogie racing's rotors are affordable and shed some decent unsprung weight.
                  Yes, I'd like to do this but there have been rumblings about changing the brake rules in Street Touring to mandate that stock weight rotors be used. It would be just my luck to spend $800 on 2-piece rotors and have them take-back this rules allowance (they are known for doing that). I have never heard of affordable 14" rotors for the Mustang... got a link? Girodisc is $800 a pair.


                  The stock 14" Brembo rotors are a staggering 25.4 pounds each!

                  Originally posted by BlackNDecker View Post
                  2) The tiger racing vented hood is also a pretty big weight savings (10 lbs for CF, 20 lbs for Fiberglass, vs. ~35 lbs for OEM hood).
                  Yep, not allowed in SCCA ST.


                  Originally posted by BlackNDecker View Post
                  3) How bout an aluminum or carbon fiber drive shaft? That would net another 15-30 lbs of weight reduction.
                  I'd love to do a 1-piece driveshaft, in aluminum or carbon. Again - not ST legal.


                  Originally posted by BlackNDecker View Post
                  4) I'm sure you've considered a dry-cell battery (Odyssey PC680 weighs 15 lbs vs. 30 lbs OEM).


                  Already installed. Gallery: http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Projects...-race-battery/




                  Originally posted by BlackNDecker View Post
                  5) Removing sound deadening? This would probably net another 30-40 lbs.
                  Again - not ST legal.


                  Originally posted by BlackNDecker View Post
                  In all, the above probably shave another 75-80 lbs from the car getting you into the 3300 lb category. I believe the Boss 302S cars weigh a svelte 3000 lbs with a single race seat and no interior.
                  With the rule set I'm working with I'm pretty limited on further weight loss. This is also a daily driven street car, so pulling all of the insulation and such would not be as streetable. But I like the suggestions! I'm still looking for pounds... the 2-piece rotor thing is going to happen soon, one way or another.

                  Thanks,
                  Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                  2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                  EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                  Comment


                  • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                    Affordable is subjective, but Fulltiltboogieracing.com sells 2-piece rotors for $675 + shipping. That is the cheapest price I've found:
                    http://www.fulltiltboogieracing.com/s197_brakes.htm


                    Can you tell me more about the mounting plate and bracket you used for the Odyssey battery? Is this a production piece? Any issues with cranking amps? I've been pleased with Odyssey batteries in the past.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                      Originally posted by BlackNDecker View Post
                      Affordable is subjective, but Fulltiltboogieracing.com sells 2-piece rotors for $675 + shipping. That is the cheapest price I've found:
                      http://www.fulltiltboogieracing.com/s197_brakes.htm
                      Yikes. Yea, that's a bit of coin. OEM replacement rotors from Brembo are under $60 each.


                      Originally posted by BlackNDecker View Post
                      Can you tell me more about the mounting plate and bracket you used for the Odyssey battery? Is this a production piece? Any issues with cranking amps? I've been pleased with Odyssey batteries in the past.
                      Zero issues in the past year of street driving, autocrossing and tracking the Mustang. Amy drives it to work every single day.

                      If you go back in this thread to post #92, I describe who's battery mount we used, and the other bracket and bits we fabricated to make it bolt into the Mustang without having to drill any holes.



                      I have PC680 Odysseys in 3 of my personal cars. Only car I have any issues with is one of my BMWs, which has a known battery draw when parked - and draws down the battery after about 5 days of non-use (no matter the battery). We keep it on a Battery Tender and its fine. One of these days we'll chase down the voltage leak...
                      Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                      2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                      EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                      Comment


                      • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                        Terry, my car is a non-Brembo. So, yep, spare tire in the trunk, 13" front brakes, and 18x8 wheels. I weighed after filling up the fuel tank about 1/8 mile down the road. The spare tire was 35lbs, the jack and tools were a little over 5lbs. So between that and the 10 gallons of fuel I mentioned you're looking at about 100 lbs out of my car. I think with it being a base model with standard brakes there's probably a noticeable weight advantage.

                        It's very tempting to autocross this car but I don't think I want to even try it in STX, it looks like STU is out with rule changes (?), and I don't feel like spending the money to set it up for ESP. So I might just throw some wheels on it that look cool (jeez, I never thought I'd say that) and remain a steet cruiser. I don't have an autocross car right now, but I'm keeping my eyes peeled for another E36. I still have a bunch of my E36 stuff including my AST suspension and 17x9 wheels, so I think that would be the smarter way to go after thinking about this. I do have some Steeda sport springs and Tokico's I picked up for a good price to make the Mustang a bit more fun and lower it a bit, so maybe some 18x9's with ST tires would be a good choice in case I want to autocross the Mustang in the mean time.
                        Last edited by GaryK; 02-08-2012, 12:04 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                          Oh yeah, if you feel like divulging the brand of that really wide "265mm" tire...I'm interested

                          Comment


                          • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                            Terry, I've been following the brake rules, and it sounds like they're done messing with it for a bit. $800 seems cheap to me for a brake upgrade if it really sheds significant weight! Unfortunately the lighter options for my car are all north of $2k, so not likely to happen yet this year...

                            Comment


                            • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                              Ok guys, I'm looking to buy some new wheels and tires and I keep going back and forth. Now I'm considering the D-force wheels too. You're saying they will work front and rear without spacers, but is that with a normal strut/spring setup? What's the biggest tire you guys have tried with them (diameter)?

                              The reason I ask is because I'm looking for just street tires right now and I'd rather not run smaller diameter tires...trying to keep fender gap to a minimum and I'm not lowering much. I think a 285/40-18 would be ideal, but there's a good deal on some 275/45-18's right now (with a 10.1" tread width). Those are some pretty big tires, actually a bit larger in diameter than the factory rubber...maybe too big, but I did find someone that's actually running them on a 18x9.5 et40 wheel.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Vorshlag 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 - auto-x/track build

                                Originally posted by GaryK View Post
                                Ok guys, I'm looking to buy some new wheels and tires and I keep going back and forth. Now I'm considering the D-force wheels too. You're saying they will work front and rear without spacers, but is that with a normal strut/spring setup? What's the biggest tire you guys have tried with them (diameter)?

                                The reason I ask is because I'm looking for just street tires right now and I'd rather not run smaller diameter tires...trying to keep fender gap to a minimum and I'm not lowering much. I think a 285/40-18 would be ideal, but there's a good deal on some 275/45-18's right now (with a 10.1" tread width). Those are some pretty big tires, actually a bit larger in diameter than the factory rubber...maybe too big, but I did find someone that's actually running them on a 18x9.5 et40 wheel.
                                We tried a 285/40/18 tire and it looks ridiculous...





                                These pictures don't show how silly this giant, tall tire looked up front. We all turned our noses up.

                                I get that you don't want a lot of wheel gap, and these cars apparently do respond well to running taller tires... but within reason. The stock stuff is 27" tall, which is enormous. There are no 18" tires that match the 27" tire height of the stock 255/40/19 tires. After much testing, calculations, and trial fitting we went with the 275/40/18 tire on the 18x10" wheels - that's the best fit for the car and the wheels. They look the best out of the many sizes we have tried, fit the wheel nicely, fit the car nicely, and were 26.4" tall. The closest we could get, without going over the stock 27" tire height.



                                Thanks,
                                Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                                2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                                EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X