Hi all,
Just spoke to "Terry" about some 4100's for my '95 ///M3. I've tried to get informed as best I could by reading this and other forums dealing with BMW's and Auto-X in particular. I am hoping that I can get a few questions answered before making the purchase of the 4100's.
I am going to use another thread that is fairly recent to start this off so that hopefully some of the ground work is laid:
Terry Fair wrote in response to http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6421
In which member 97M3 was asking about setting up a 1997 M3/4/5 (e36 M3 four door saloon five speed) for SCCA STU.
Terry Fair wrote:
"What are your goals - fast at local events, an STU National Championship, or somewhere in between?"
My response to that question is:
Some where in between I guess. I would like to attend the Nationals, but I would'nt expect to trophy. I want to go more for the experience of being there and meeting folks. I would also expect that I would drive not trailer the car.
Terry Fair wrote:
"We ended our last season with 265/35/18 on 18x10 wheels
OK, so your wheels are way too narrow for the highest level of competition... you need to be pushing 9" or 9.5", or maybe even 10" wide wheels, and 255/40/17s or 265/35/18" tires, at the very least. With only 8.5" wheels and 245s you won't have any tire advantage over the AWD Subarus (that's their tire width limit, but yours is 285mm!). "
My response to that question/statement is:
I plan to run 17X9s (When I can find them in stock) with 255/40 17 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs. One of the venues I participate at is a very flat concrete surface, the others are pavement (asphalt). Do you have any setup (Tire pressure) suggestions for these different surfaces?
Terry Fair wrote:
"Single Adjustable twin tube shocks probably will not get it done, but who knows. We've placed higher than most BMWs in STU and we did it in 2005-6 with TCKline double adjustables and in 2007 with AST doubles/triples. Still, you need to do a LOT of testing to even learn how to use shocks with this many adjustments before that helps your times. For a first year effort, those SA's will probably be fine."
My response to that question/statement is:
I am going to buy AST 4100s. I have some experience with GC Track/School coilovers on another '95 ///M3 of mine. There are lots of reasons beyond the engineering of the AST's to why I've chosen AST and Vorshlag. I really don't have the capacity to get a PHD in shock technology. So my question is, how far behind am I going to be using an AST SA shock at the regional/national level?
Terry Fair wrote:
"Have you done a lightweight battery? Upper the RPM limit? Built a custom header and super light exhaust? Racing seats that weigh 25 pounds each? Racing harness for the driver?
What are your spring rates, swaybar sizes, and engine mods? Alignment settings? Lightweight brake system components?
What does the engine dyno at? Post the dyno plot.
What does the car weight? Has it been corner balanced?
WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET, skill level with respect to mechanical work, driving accomplishments in the past, and racing schedule commitment? Are you willing to put in more than a couple of years of effort, and at least 2 events every month? Do you plan to street drive the car, and if so, how often? Do you have a truck and trailer?"
My response to that question/statement is:
Have you done a lightweight battery? No, what is the "Hot setup"?
Upper the RPM limit? Yes, it currently has a Dinan chip.
Built a custom header and super light exhaust? No, I live in California and as far as I know there is'nt any CARB approved headers available. I Have done the S52 exhaust manifold swap however. I still need to do a cat back exhaust (muffler) swap, any suggestions?
Racing seats that weigh 25 pounds each? No, still stock Vaders. What reclining race style seats do you suggest?
Racing harness for the driver? No. Again what are some suggestions. I do own an I/O Port rear Harness mount bar that I previously had installed in another ///M3 that I owned. I just have not gotten around to installing it in this car.
What are your spring rates, swaybar sizes, and engine mods? I'm not exactly sure what I should run for spring rates. The car will be driven to all Auto-X events. Do you have any suggestions? The swaybar size is stock ///M3 all around. I guess to some degree spring rate will dictate what the sway bar size will be. What do you suggest? Engine mods for this car have been kept to a minimum. I do have access to all of the intake side mods and chips as appropriate. Cold air intake to 3.5" MAF to bigger bore Throttle body. What is legal for STU?
Alignment settings? What would be a good base to start with? I know tire temperatures dictate what that will be. I'm hoping that I am going to be able to work from your and others experience with he proposed setup to reduce my learning curve.
Lightweight brake system components? What is allowed for STU? Is the Euro two piece "floating" rotor allowed? I'm not sure what the weight of them are, but i assume they are lighter because of the aluminum hats.
What does the engine dyno at? Post the dyno plot. I have'nt done a dyno yet. Once I figure out what is legal as far as motor modifications are concerned for STU, I will make the modifications and get it dynoed. The motor is very good though, with less than 27,000 on it.
What does the car weight? It's at the stock weight I believe.
Has it been corner balanced? When I install the AST 4100's along with the other modifications that are suggested it will be.
WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET, skill level with respect to mechanical work, driving accomplishments in the past, and racing schedule commitment? As far as budget, I'm willing to spend a reasonable amount, In your oppinion what will it take? As far as mechanical abilities, I'm OK with a wrench, however my son is a certified BMW Tech at the local dealership, I plan to have him do all of the work. My driving accomplishments in the past where over twenty five years ago. When I was stationed in Germany with the Army, I participated in the local economys Auto-X (slaloms over there) events, I did OK, winning some trophys. I just started back in Auto-X this year. My racing schedule commitment is to at least run two events (if not more) a month for the 2009 season.
Are you willing to put in more than a couple of years of effort, and at least 2 events every month? As stated above, yes.
Do you plan to street drive the car, and if so, how often? I plan to drive the car to and from the events. I have other ///M3's that I can street drive if I feel the need to.
Do you have a truck and trailer? Yes, I have a 2005 Ford F150 but with the 4.6l motor, crew cab. But I don't have a trailer.
Hopefully That is enough information presented in a readable fashion to get the ball rolling. Thanks to anyone who can give me any answers to the setup questions. I really appreciate it.
Jon
Just spoke to "Terry" about some 4100's for my '95 ///M3. I've tried to get informed as best I could by reading this and other forums dealing with BMW's and Auto-X in particular. I am hoping that I can get a few questions answered before making the purchase of the 4100's.
I am going to use another thread that is fairly recent to start this off so that hopefully some of the ground work is laid:
Terry Fair wrote in response to http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6421
In which member 97M3 was asking about setting up a 1997 M3/4/5 (e36 M3 four door saloon five speed) for SCCA STU.
Terry Fair wrote:
"What are your goals - fast at local events, an STU National Championship, or somewhere in between?"
My response to that question is:
Some where in between I guess. I would like to attend the Nationals, but I would'nt expect to trophy. I want to go more for the experience of being there and meeting folks. I would also expect that I would drive not trailer the car.
Terry Fair wrote:
"We ended our last season with 265/35/18 on 18x10 wheels
OK, so your wheels are way too narrow for the highest level of competition... you need to be pushing 9" or 9.5", or maybe even 10" wide wheels, and 255/40/17s or 265/35/18" tires, at the very least. With only 8.5" wheels and 245s you won't have any tire advantage over the AWD Subarus (that's their tire width limit, but yours is 285mm!). "
My response to that question/statement is:
I plan to run 17X9s (When I can find them in stock) with 255/40 17 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs. One of the venues I participate at is a very flat concrete surface, the others are pavement (asphalt). Do you have any setup (Tire pressure) suggestions for these different surfaces?
Terry Fair wrote:
"Single Adjustable twin tube shocks probably will not get it done, but who knows. We've placed higher than most BMWs in STU and we did it in 2005-6 with TCKline double adjustables and in 2007 with AST doubles/triples. Still, you need to do a LOT of testing to even learn how to use shocks with this many adjustments before that helps your times. For a first year effort, those SA's will probably be fine."
My response to that question/statement is:
I am going to buy AST 4100s. I have some experience with GC Track/School coilovers on another '95 ///M3 of mine. There are lots of reasons beyond the engineering of the AST's to why I've chosen AST and Vorshlag. I really don't have the capacity to get a PHD in shock technology. So my question is, how far behind am I going to be using an AST SA shock at the regional/national level?
Terry Fair wrote:
"Have you done a lightweight battery? Upper the RPM limit? Built a custom header and super light exhaust? Racing seats that weigh 25 pounds each? Racing harness for the driver?
What are your spring rates, swaybar sizes, and engine mods? Alignment settings? Lightweight brake system components?
What does the engine dyno at? Post the dyno plot.
What does the car weight? Has it been corner balanced?
WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET, skill level with respect to mechanical work, driving accomplishments in the past, and racing schedule commitment? Are you willing to put in more than a couple of years of effort, and at least 2 events every month? Do you plan to street drive the car, and if so, how often? Do you have a truck and trailer?"
My response to that question/statement is:
Have you done a lightweight battery? No, what is the "Hot setup"?
Upper the RPM limit? Yes, it currently has a Dinan chip.
Built a custom header and super light exhaust? No, I live in California and as far as I know there is'nt any CARB approved headers available. I Have done the S52 exhaust manifold swap however. I still need to do a cat back exhaust (muffler) swap, any suggestions?
Racing seats that weigh 25 pounds each? No, still stock Vaders. What reclining race style seats do you suggest?
Racing harness for the driver? No. Again what are some suggestions. I do own an I/O Port rear Harness mount bar that I previously had installed in another ///M3 that I owned. I just have not gotten around to installing it in this car.
What are your spring rates, swaybar sizes, and engine mods? I'm not exactly sure what I should run for spring rates. The car will be driven to all Auto-X events. Do you have any suggestions? The swaybar size is stock ///M3 all around. I guess to some degree spring rate will dictate what the sway bar size will be. What do you suggest? Engine mods for this car have been kept to a minimum. I do have access to all of the intake side mods and chips as appropriate. Cold air intake to 3.5" MAF to bigger bore Throttle body. What is legal for STU?
Alignment settings? What would be a good base to start with? I know tire temperatures dictate what that will be. I'm hoping that I am going to be able to work from your and others experience with he proposed setup to reduce my learning curve.
Lightweight brake system components? What is allowed for STU? Is the Euro two piece "floating" rotor allowed? I'm not sure what the weight of them are, but i assume they are lighter because of the aluminum hats.
What does the engine dyno at? Post the dyno plot. I have'nt done a dyno yet. Once I figure out what is legal as far as motor modifications are concerned for STU, I will make the modifications and get it dynoed. The motor is very good though, with less than 27,000 on it.
What does the car weight? It's at the stock weight I believe.
Has it been corner balanced? When I install the AST 4100's along with the other modifications that are suggested it will be.
WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET, skill level with respect to mechanical work, driving accomplishments in the past, and racing schedule commitment? As far as budget, I'm willing to spend a reasonable amount, In your oppinion what will it take? As far as mechanical abilities, I'm OK with a wrench, however my son is a certified BMW Tech at the local dealership, I plan to have him do all of the work. My driving accomplishments in the past where over twenty five years ago. When I was stationed in Germany with the Army, I participated in the local economys Auto-X (slaloms over there) events, I did OK, winning some trophys. I just started back in Auto-X this year. My racing schedule commitment is to at least run two events (if not more) a month for the 2009 season.
Are you willing to put in more than a couple of years of effort, and at least 2 events every month? As stated above, yes.
Do you plan to street drive the car, and if so, how often? I plan to drive the car to and from the events. I have other ///M3's that I can street drive if I feel the need to.
Do you have a truck and trailer? Yes, I have a 2005 Ford F150 but with the 4.6l motor, crew cab. But I don't have a trailer.
Hopefully That is enough information presented in a readable fashion to get the ball rolling. Thanks to anyone who can give me any answers to the setup questions. I really appreciate it.
Jon
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