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(Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

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  • (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

    Hi all,

    Just spoke to "Terry" about some 4100's for my '95 ///M3. I've tried to get informed as best I could by reading this and other forums dealing with BMW's and Auto-X in particular. I am hoping that I can get a few questions answered before making the purchase of the 4100's.

    I am going to use another thread that is fairly recent to start this off so that hopefully some of the ground work is laid:

    Terry Fair wrote in response to http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6421
    In which member 97M3 was asking about setting up a 1997 M3/4/5 (e36 M3 four door saloon five speed) for SCCA STU.

    Terry Fair wrote:

    "What are your goals - fast at local events, an STU National Championship, or somewhere in between?"

    My response to that question is:

    Some where in between I guess. I would like to attend the Nationals, but I would'nt expect to trophy. I want to go more for the experience of being there and meeting folks. I would also expect that I would drive not trailer the car.

    Terry Fair wrote:

    "We ended our last season with 265/35/18 on 18x10 wheels

    OK, so your wheels are way too narrow for the highest level of competition... you need to be pushing 9" or 9.5", or maybe even 10" wide wheels, and 255/40/17s or 265/35/18" tires, at the very least. With only 8.5" wheels and 245s you won't have any tire advantage over the AWD Subarus (that's their tire width limit, but yours is 285mm!). "

    My response to that question/statement is:

    I plan to run 17X9s (When I can find them in stock) with 255/40 17 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs. One of the venues I participate at is a very flat concrete surface, the others are pavement (asphalt). Do you have any setup (Tire pressure) suggestions for these different surfaces?

    Terry Fair wrote:

    "Single Adjustable twin tube shocks probably will not get it done, but who knows. We've placed higher than most BMWs in STU and we did it in 2005-6 with TCKline double adjustables and in 2007 with AST doubles/triples. Still, you need to do a LOT of testing to even learn how to use shocks with this many adjustments before that helps your times. For a first year effort, those SA's will probably be fine."

    My response to that question/statement is:

    I am going to buy AST 4100s. I have some experience with GC Track/School coilovers on another '95 ///M3 of mine. There are lots of reasons beyond the engineering of the AST's to why I've chosen AST and Vorshlag. I really don't have the capacity to get a PHD in shock technology. So my question is, how far behind am I going to be using an AST SA shock at the regional/national level?

    Terry Fair wrote:

    "Have you done a lightweight battery? Upper the RPM limit? Built a custom header and super light exhaust? Racing seats that weigh 25 pounds each? Racing harness for the driver?

    What are your spring rates, swaybar sizes, and engine mods? Alignment settings? Lightweight brake system components?

    What does the engine dyno at? Post the dyno plot.

    What does the car weight? Has it been corner balanced?

    WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET, skill level with respect to mechanical work, driving accomplishments in the past, and racing schedule commitment? Are you willing to put in more than a couple of years of effort, and at least 2 events every month? Do you plan to street drive the car, and if so, how often? Do you have a truck and trailer?"

    My response to that question/statement is:

    Have you done a lightweight battery? No, what is the "Hot setup"?

    Upper the RPM limit? Yes, it currently has a Dinan chip.

    Built a custom header and super light exhaust? No, I live in California and as far as I know there is'nt any CARB approved headers available. I Have done the S52 exhaust manifold swap however. I still need to do a cat back exhaust (muffler) swap, any suggestions?

    Racing seats that weigh 25 pounds each? No, still stock Vaders. What reclining race style seats do you suggest?

    Racing harness for the driver? No. Again what are some suggestions. I do own an I/O Port rear Harness mount bar that I previously had installed in another ///M3 that I owned. I just have not gotten around to installing it in this car.

    What are your spring rates, swaybar sizes, and engine mods? I'm not exactly sure what I should run for spring rates. The car will be driven to all Auto-X events. Do you have any suggestions? The swaybar size is stock ///M3 all around. I guess to some degree spring rate will dictate what the sway bar size will be. What do you suggest? Engine mods for this car have been kept to a minimum. I do have access to all of the intake side mods and chips as appropriate. Cold air intake to 3.5" MAF to bigger bore Throttle body. What is legal for STU?

    Alignment settings? What would be a good base to start with? I know tire temperatures dictate what that will be. I'm hoping that I am going to be able to work from your and others experience with he proposed setup to reduce my learning curve.

    Lightweight brake system components? What is allowed for STU? Is the Euro two piece "floating" rotor allowed? I'm not sure what the weight of them are, but i assume they are lighter because of the aluminum hats.

    What does the engine dyno at? Post the dyno plot. I have'nt done a dyno yet. Once I figure out what is legal as far as motor modifications are concerned for STU, I will make the modifications and get it dynoed. The motor is very good though, with less than 27,000 on it.

    What does the car weight? It's at the stock weight I believe.

    Has it been corner balanced? When I install the AST 4100's along with the other modifications that are suggested it will be.

    WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET, skill level with respect to mechanical work, driving accomplishments in the past, and racing schedule commitment? As far as budget, I'm willing to spend a reasonable amount, In your oppinion what will it take? As far as mechanical abilities, I'm OK with a wrench, however my son is a certified BMW Tech at the local dealership, I plan to have him do all of the work. My driving accomplishments in the past where over twenty five years ago. When I was stationed in Germany with the Army, I participated in the local economys Auto-X (slaloms over there) events, I did OK, winning some trophys. I just started back in Auto-X this year. My racing schedule commitment is to at least run two events (if not more) a month for the 2009 season.

    Are you willing to put in more than a couple of years of effort, and at least 2 events every month? As stated above, yes.

    Do you plan to street drive the car, and if so, how often? I plan to drive the car to and from the events. I have other ///M3's that I can street drive if I feel the need to.

    Do you have a truck and trailer? Yes, I have a 2005 Ford F150 but with the 4.6l motor, crew cab. But I don't have a trailer.

    Hopefully That is enough information presented in a readable fashion to get the ball rolling. Thanks to anyone who can give me any answers to the setup questions. I really appreciate it.

    Jon

  • #2
    Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

    Originally posted by Jon68z
    I plan to run 17X9s (When I can find them in stock) with 255/40 17 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs. One of the venues I participate at is a very flat concrete surface, the others are pavement (asphalt). Do you have any setup (Tire pressure) suggestions for these different surfaces?
    I run lower pressures than most... 35 front, 30 rear with 17x9s and 255s. 600# front, 700# rear with UUC Swayboobarians all around.

    So my question is, how far behind am I going to be using an AST SA shock at the regional/national level?
    Not sure. I run 4200s and the ability to fine tune them definitely helps. The 4100s are pretty good though... tough call. If the extra $$ is there, go 4200s just to dial in that extra 10th or so.

    Have you done a lightweight battery? No, what is the "Hot setup"?
    Odyssey 680 or equivalent Deka

    Built a custom header and super light exhaust? No, I live in California and as far as I know there is'nt any CARB approved headers available. I Have done the S52 exhaust manifold swap however. I still need to do a cat back exhaust (muffler) swap, any suggestions?
    Euro 3.2 headers can be found for $600 on ebay. bolt them up and go (no OBD issues since you have a 95). Lightest legal exhaust from that point back.

    Racing seats that weigh 25 pounds each? No, still stock Vaders. What reclining race style seats do you suggest?
    if they have to recline (barf) then the lightest ones you can find that do not fall under 25lbs with all associated bracketry (rule book).

    Racing harness for the driver? No. Again what are some suggestions. I do own an I/O Port rear Harness mount bar that I previously had installed in another ///M3 that I owned. I just have not gotten around to installing it in this car.
    harness bar is weight. If you are only going to auto-x, pick up a schroth 4-point for the driver. Used ones show up on www.bimmerforums.com weekly.

    What are your spring rates, swaybar sizes, and engine mods? I'm not exactly sure what I should run for spring rates. The car will be driven to all Auto-X events. Do you have any suggestions? The swaybar size is stock ///M3 all around. I guess to some degree spring rate will dictate what the sway bar size will be. What do you suggest?
    I posted my setup above. adjustable swaybars and endlinks are a must if you are really going to dial the car in. Tune the car with springs / dampers. Fine tune the car with swaybars.

    Engine mods for this car have been kept to a minimum. I do have access to all of the intake side mods and chips as appropriate. Cold air intake to 3.5" MAF to bigger bore Throttle body. What is legal for STU?
    Rule book. Get one. Engine mods are intake, full exhaust (with specific cat rules), chip and pulleys.

    Alignment settings? What would be a good base to start with? I know tire temperatures dictate what that will be. I'm hoping that I am going to be able to work from your and others experience with he proposed setup to reduce my learning curve.
    Front: Lots of negative camber (-4*) and lots of positive caster with toe out. Rear: -2 camber and 1/8" total toe-in.

    Lightweight brake system components? What is allowed for STU? Is the Euro two piece "floating" rotor allowed? I'm not sure what the weight of them are, but i assume they are lighter because of the aluminum hats.
    If it were me, and I wasn't a tard, I'd go with the smallest / lightest brakes I could. Non M brakes are lighter... and would be a good / cheap place to start.

    What does the engine dyno at? Post the dyno plot. I have'nt done a dyno yet. Once I figure out what is legal as far as motor modifications are concerned for STU, I will make the modifications and get it dynoed. The motor is very good though, with less than 27,000 on it.
    Rule book.

    What does the car weight? It's at the stock weight I believe.
    it is too heavy... really. You are down 100 hp and equal torque. Lose weight.
    Last edited by John in Houston; 10-29-2008, 08:10 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

      John's reply was excellent - and you can trust what he writes. He's smart, experienced and fast.

      I'll only expand on a few points.
      Originally posted by Jon68z
      I plan to run 17X9s (When I can find them in stock) with 255/40 17 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs.
      That's a really good starting point. If we could find a 17x9.5" wheel that would be even better for that tire size, but trust me, there are ZERO off the shelf wheels available in that size. When Hanchey and I ran a 17x9.5" it was a CCW wheel that was $2500/set and weighed 20.4 pounds each. Too heavy and costly - right now the best bet is the D-Force 5 spoke ($259 and 16.6 pounds).


      CCW 17x9.5" wheels and 255/40/17


      D-Force 17x9 and 255/40/17


      D-Force 18x10 and 265/35/18 (they rubbed)

      Originally posted by Jon68z
      I am going to buy AST 4100s. I have some experience with GC Track/School coilovers on another '95 ///M3 of mine. There are lots of reasons beyond the engineering of the AST's to why I've chosen AST and Vorshlag. I really don't have the capacity to get a PHD in shock technology. So my question is, how far behind am I going to be using an AST SA shock at the regional/national level?
      I think it could cost you a tenth or more, especially when conditions change (rain) or if there are some nasty bumps on course - where a separate compression adjustment would be beneficial. But if you aren't going for a win at Nats and don't want the hassle of additional adjustments, the 4100 is still a GREAT set of dampers.

      Originally posted by Jon68z
      "Have you done a lightweight battery?
      The Odyssey PC680 is a good choice and it took us to 3 years of competitiveness in our E36 M3.


      Left: factory E46 battery (54 pounds) next to a PC680 replacement.

      As John stated, Deka also makes "AGM" style batteries and they tend to be less costly (we used the ETX18L in our E30). Pretty much any motorcycle battery is going to need the Werker SAE battery post conversion kit ($8.99 at BatteriesPlus), which has an M6 threaded post that screws into the tops of any motorcycle battery. You can buy the Russ Wiles mount from Bimmerhaus or just make a mount.


      A homemade battery mount can be simple and cost effective as long as its very sturdy and allows no movement!

      Note: a smaller battery can have plenty of cranking amps but will always have LESS RESERVE power. That means - don't leave your lights, radio, or hazards on with the engine off or it might not start. You can daily drive with a racing battery if you follow that rule. If the car sits for weeks at a time w/o use, buy a cheap trickle charger and use it.


      Originally posted by Jon68z
      Built a custom header and super light exhaust? No, I live in California and as far as I know there isn't any CARB approved headers available. I Have done the S52 exhaust manifold swap however. I still need to do a cat back exhaust (muffler) swap, any suggestions?
      As John said the Euro header is a good, proven improvement. It looks stock visually (well, it looks close enough to an emissions station employee) and on a 1995 M3 it would actually offer no change in legality. The 1996-99 cars had air injection that the Euro E36 M3s never had.

      The key is to make a lightweight exhaust after the header, and lose the two cats and go to one. There's almost 100 pounds in the factory exhaust! You can whittle away over half of that and still maintain a clean tailpipe. Thin wall exhaust tubing, mandrel bends, a lightweight cat, and a light muffler. There is no off the shelf solution to this - its gotta be custom. You can drop $1000 in after header exhaust if you pay someone to do all of this with high quality stainless tubing, or you can make your own for a few hundred bucks. On our E30 I did the latter...


      That system was built using thin wall carbon steel mandrel bends and tubing, a STS legal cat (that class has to use an EO or CARB legal cat, but STU does not), and a lightweight muffler. Probably $300 in parts, maybe 4 hours of labor. It was very light and lost 50-60 pounds over stock. It is also LOUD and free flowing.


      The "old" exhaust in this case was already way lighter than the stock garbage.

      You do a custom exhaust more for weight than anything, but it does improve power yet will likely increase noise levels. Part of being a competitive race car. An STU exhaust should still easily pass tailpipe emissions unless something is broken.

      Originally posted by Jon68z
      Racing seats that weigh 25 pounds each? No, still stock Vaders. What reclining race style seats do you suggest?
      Yea... reclining seats are automatically going to be pretty heavy. The factory vaders are 62-77 pounds each (manual vs power adjustments) and a pair of 25# racing seats can net you a weight loss over over 100 pounds. That is... huge.



      For fixed back seats we've had great luck with UltraShield aluminum Rally Pro seats ($249) and for sliders we like the low profile/double locking Sparco sliders ($49). These require custom lower seat brackets, of course. Some seat makers have bolt-in seat brackets for the E36 chassis, but these cars are narrow and fitting a racing seat in can get pretty tricky... Also note that the factory seat and steering wheel don't align well from the factory, so most racers bias the drivers seat towards the middle of the car by up to 2" to improve driver position.

      For a nicer fixed back seat look at Cobra (Suzuka) and Sparco (EVO/EVO2). These cost $500-699 each and weigh a bit more but feel and work great. Very high quality.

      Originally posted by Jon68z
      Racing harness for the driver? No. Again what are some suggestions. I do own an I/O Port rear Harness mount bar that I previously had installed in another ///M3 that I owned. I just have not gotten around to installing it in this car.
      A harness is crucial when you're making more grip - you need it to hold your body in place so that you don't use your arms to support your own weight. Changes the way the car drives dramatically. The easiest solution is what John suggested. If you do a traditional harness you will need a harness bar (10 pounds + some money) that helps route the harness at the right angle, for safety.

      I honestly don't have any experience with aftermarket reclining seats. As John mentioned, look at the weight and get the lightest you can. They won't be anywhere near 25 pounds, I suspect.

      Originally posted by Jon68z
      Cold air intake to 3.5" MAF to bigger bore Throttle body. What is legal for STU?
      The only thing you can do on the intake side is a cold air kit. Can't touch the MAF or Throttle Body on a BMW. Other cars in STU can change the MAF, just not the BMW - long story. At least you have a 1995 and don't have the added restriction of the traction control throttle body equipped to all 1996-99 M3s.

      Originally posted by Jon68z
      Lightweight brake system components? What is allowed for STU? Is the Euro two piece "floating" rotor allowed? I'm not sure what the weight of them are, but i assume they are lighter because of the aluminum hats.

      Do this...


      Not this...

      We ran the 2 piece Euro rotors - they are about 2 pounds lighter than stock. STU is tricky - the rotors and calipers can be changed but you can't put on smaller rotors. I wouldn't alter the braking system on an M3 drastically because it works so damn well. Go with better pads (that work cold - for autocross I like Hawk HP+) and the Euro front rotors and maybe SS flex lines leave it at that.

      Originally posted by Jon68z
      What does the car weight? It's at the stock weight I believe.
      You need to weigh it. To be competitive you need to get out as much weight as possible. They tend to be 3100-3150 stock and you need to get it around 2850-2900 at race weight. A 1995 M3 has the best chance of getting to that weight. You have to keep the a/c system intact (thankfully) so no need to get radical. Seats, exhaust, battery wheels, brakes - all of it is to get the weight down.

      That's the only real advantage an M3 has over an AWD turbo STU car - weight. You can run a little more tire width and the overall balance is better than the front heavy boost buggies, too.

      Originally posted by Jon68z
      Do you plan to street drive the car, and if so, how often? I plan to drive the car to and from the events. I have other ///M3's that I can street drive if I feel the need to.
      If its only doing to/from race duty go stiffer on the springs. We talked about he GTS package and I think that's ideal for you.

      Let us know how the car does!
      Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
      2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
      EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

        Doods,

        I cant thank you enough. Yes a rule book is certainly in order and I have down loaded the one off of the SCCA website. When I join the SCCA I will certainly buy one.

        I can't seem to find any LTW5's, I was thinking of buying the 17x9 TRMotorsport MT1-R from Tire Rack, it seems to have a similar weight and price ($239.00 ea.) to the LTW5s. Any oppinions?

        Speaking of rules, I thought that SS brake lines where reserved for cars older than 1992, am I mistaken?

        Are the e30 M3 front control arms allowed (The aluminum ones)?

        I was intrigued by the tire trailer that was built a while back and was thinking that this might be the way to go for the longer distance Auto-Xs that I plan to attend next year. Any comments on the experience of towing behind an M3?

        Would locking down the sunroof and removing the sunroof motor be worthwhile in removing weight from the car?

        Thanks!

        Jon

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

          Originally posted by Jon68z
          I cant thank you enough. Yes a rule book is certainly in order and I have down loaded the one off of the SCCA website. When I join the SCCA I will certainly buy one.
          Don't buy one until you actually go to a tour or Nationals. The dowloaded version is perfect.

          Speaking of rules, I thought that SS brake lines where reserved for cars older than 1992, am I mistaken?
          Legal. I run them.

          Are the e30 M3 front control arms allowed (The aluminum ones)?
          Don't think so... and they bend easy (ask me how).

          I was intrigued by the tire trailer that was built a while back and was thinking that this might be the way to go for the longer distance Auto-Xs that I plan to attend next year. Any comments on the experience of towing behind an M3?
          The one I bought from Butter, and then sold to Paul was good for at least 120 mph behind the M3. After that I don't think the wheels were on the ground anymore. Get the 12" wheels... and definitely look for a used one.

          Would locking down the sunroof and removing the sunroof motor be worthwhile in removing weight from the car?
          Not legal to remove any of that.

          Right now your #1 priority should be to refresh all of the bushings / mounts / joints in the car. This gets you to a good starting point before you start setting up the car for competition. Specifically the following:

          - Front Control Arm Bushings
          - Rear Trailing Arm Bushings (OEM with limiters... NOT POLY!)
          - Front control arms (cheaper to replace the whole arm vs. the 4 ball joints)
          - Tie Rods
          - Rear Shock Mounts (RSMs... will be replaced when you go with the 4100s)
          Last edited by John in Houston; 10-29-2008, 11:40 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

            Well... I think technically in STU you can opt to use one alternate control arm per corner but only if you don't also add adjustable camber plates... would the E30 arms be legal since they don't have any adjustment? I'm not sure, but I did see several cars with them at nats. The problem is most of them had camber plates ALSO, which wouldn't be legal. This is an often confused rule.

            John would be a better source for a ruling since he's some official SCCA muckity muck now.

            I think this rule is supposed to allow cars to have more adjustment in their alignment by EITHER adding camber plates OR via an alternate (adjustable) suspension control arm (aka: "Camber kit"). Some folks have taken this to mean they can swap on any control arm, which can lower weight, and I think that would be legal... as long as they didn't use camber plate on that corner as well. The E36 rear trailing arm, a massive cast steel beast of a thing, is specifically not allowed to be changed in STU, however.


            The Rear Trailing Arms are the curled steel bits hanging low in the picture above... big things, can't be changed.

            As John mentioned the factory aluminum E30 arms are somewhat problematic, and they damn sure are expensive. We've weighed both the E30 M3 cast aluminum and E36 standard cast steel arms and its not a big enough change to warrant the added cost, lower reliability, and omit the use of a camber plate in front.


            E30 M3 front lower control arm weighed in at 4.1 pounds but cost over 2X as much as the steel E36 arms which were around 8 pounds.

            That said, you can replace the rear control arms with stronger, adjustable aftermarket arms. Its not a huge help, as you can get plenty of rear camber via factory eccentric adjustments, but some folks like the aftermarket arms for strength. The stock rear lower control arms are thin walled stamped steel and they can bend under extreme use (although the ones on our STU E36 M3 are stock and look fine).


            A low priority mod, for sure...
            Last edited by Fair!; 10-29-2008, 02:22 PM.
            Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
            2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
            EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

              Originally posted by Fair!
              Well... I think technically in STU you can opt to use one alternate control arm per corner but only if you don't also add adjustable camber plates... would the E30 arms be legal since they don't have any adjustment? I'm not sure, but I did see several cars with them at nats. The problem is most of them had camber plates ALSO, which wouldn't be legal. This is an often confused rule.
              See... that's why I don't think they are allowed.. if you use camber plates. But WTF do I know?

              John would be a better source for a ruling since he's some official SCCA muckity muck now.
              I'm only qualified to keep your stupid-ass safe

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

                You can change one camber adjustment. They did that for Hondas. You can't Update/Backdate either so I don't think an E30 control arm would fly there either.
                Brian Hanchey
                AST Suspension - USA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

                  Any opinions on TRMotorsports wheels?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

                    Originally posted by Jon68z
                    Any opinions on TRMotorsports wheels?
                    I think they are fine to use. We have an E90 customer with them and they do their job.
                    Brian Hanchey
                    AST Suspension - USA

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

                      Any word on when you'll be getting a new shipment of the LTW5's?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

                        Originally posted by Jon68z
                        Any word on when you'll be getting a new shipment of the LTW5's?
                        "November." Maybe. Nobody has any 17x9s or 18x10s, anywhere.
                        Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                        2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                        EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

                          Glad to see that the site is back!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: (Long) Another '95 ///M3 for STU questions (Pre-purchase)

                            Originally posted by Jon68z
                            Glad to see that the site is back!
                            Yea, the site never went down but the domain name server pointing vorshlag.com to our web host got messed up. There was a DNS registration glitch and the domain name was borked for about 30 minutes... unfortunately it can take up to 24 hours for a new DNS entry to propagate, I was told, so some folks saw almost no outage while others lost us for about a day.

                            It never went down here and on Friday I made a bunch of updates to the front page.
                            Terry Fair - www.vorshlag.com
                            2018 GT / S550 Dev + 2013 FR-S / 86 Dev + 2011 GT / S197 Dev + C4 Corvette Dev
                            EVO X Dev + 2007 Z06 / C6 Dev + BMW E46 Dev + C5 Corvette Dev

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